Roadside fishing and cops

BenFishing · June 07, 2012, 09:27:07 AM

Alright guys, I'm pretty new to Maryland, so I don't know if this is a regular thing, but it seems to be for me.
I like fishing ponds and streams along the roads. I keep gear in my cars at all times, just in case I see someplace I think holds fish. I've already talked with DNR, both biologist and law enforcement, and they've told me that as long as it's not private property or labeled as "No fishing" then I'm good to go, as long as I follow Maryland's general fishing laws.
But, almost every time I fish some roadside pond or stream, I have to deal with regular police. They always tell me I can't fish there. I tel them the info I've gotten from DNR says that I can. Yet, they still argue that I can't. I know the law already, so I don't just pack-up and go...I stay and argue my rights. I haven't been cuffed or ticketed, yet, but this is also my first fishing season in MD, and I've been talked to 9 times for fishing in places were it's "not allowed" according to some cops...who have never been able to show me ant statutes/laws/signs/or anything else to say these areas are off limits to fishing.
I will always fish random ponds on public property. They've produced some of my best fishing. One in Illinois netted me 10+ bass in 2 hours, all over 4 pounds. Another, in Florida, was a fish hooked almost every other cast for an hour. And, if you're ever in South Carolina.....roadside fishing there can be just as good as having a boat.
So, does anyone else have these problems, or is it just my out-of-state plates and my willingness to be someplace different?

Montgomeryjl · June 07, 2012, 09:36:44 AM

To be honest I've always wondered about doing that. But I've always been worried about the law. I live here in southern Illinois and I see nice fishin holes all the time. Maybe I'll try it sometime and see what happens

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Mike Cork · June 07, 2012, 09:43:17 AM

I'm a complete outsider so take my thoughts as BS...

If your inside city limits check city ordinances as well to be sure.

Maryland, New York, and a couple other places have some of the most bogus Homeland Security laws that I've ever researched. So there might be something there. While you and I know your fishing, there are laws on the books that say no person shall be within 75 yards of a highway, 200 yards of bridge bla bla

My first goal would be to get something in writing or find a regulation that proves you have the right to fish there. I realize that it's a free country and we are allowed to fish public waters but sometimes we have to put things on our side.

The simple fact that you haven't been ticketed proves they don't have a leg to stand on. But probably don't back down because they have already made a stand and want to be right.

Keep fighting and don't let them run you off. Even if it has to be a personal crusade of yours to get "Fishing Allowed" signs posted by the DNR

As we would say in the south "You Go Boei"

BenFishing · June 07, 2012, 09:59:24 AM

Quote from: Montgomeryjl on June 07, 2012, 09:36:44 AM
To be honest I've always wondered about doing that. But I've always been worried about the law. I live here in southern Illinois and I see nice fishin holes all the time. Maybe I'll try it sometime and see what happens

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When I was in Illinois, I was in the Belleville area. I fished down in your area a lot too. Never got harassed by cops, when I was roadside fishing. So I'd say, give it a try. Just research the state laws, and see what is legal. The one time I had a cop stop and talk to me while I was roadside fishing, he was asking me what they were biting on.

BenFishing · June 07, 2012, 10:08:03 AM

Quote from: Mike Cork on June 07, 2012, 09:43:17 AM
I'm a complete outsider so take my thoughts as BS...

If your inside city limits check city ordinances as well to be sure.

Maryland, New York, and a couple other places have some of the most bogus Homeland Security laws that I've ever researched. So there might be something there. While you and I know your fishing, there are laws on the books that say no person shall be within 75 yards of a highway, 200 yards of bridge bla bla

My first goal would be to get something in writing or find a regulation that proves you have the right to fish there. I realize that it's a free country and we are allowed to fish public waters but sometimes we have to put things on our side.

The simple fact that you haven't been ticketed proves they don't have a leg to stand on. But probably don't back down because they have already made a stand and want to be right.

Keep fighting and don't let them run you off. Even if it has to be a personal crusade of yours to get "Fishing Allowed" signs posted by the DNR

As we would say in the south "You Go Boei"

I'm definitely an outsider too, but it's that way with anywhere I live. I've lived in every coastal state from Maryland to Texas, plus a few other states, and a few other countries, and I'm only 33, so I'm not really from anywhere, and I spend a lot of time researching laws. Spent a few years fishing Northern Louisiana too....Lake Bistineau will always be one of my favorite places...sitting back in the cypress trees, throwing torpedoes and scum frogs, and droping worms next to hollow trees.
I definitely won't be backing down. For many generations, my family has served in the military, and I also served. I want to enjoy the rights I have, and I plan on exercising them to the fullest.
To be clear though, I do treat the police personnel that talk with me, with respect. Unless they don't treat me with respect. But, at the minimum, I always start off being respectful...after that, my attitude depends on their attitude.

Creel Limit Zero · June 07, 2012, 10:24:33 AM

If it is indeed Public property, then you should be within your right to fish it. But many of these road side ponds were made for run off, and are indeed private property, even if it is not listed.

Thing is, there are no natural lakes in Maryland. Every little pond you see has been man made, so there is a high chance it is private property. Same holds true with a lot of the streams and rivers, folks own the land right up to the water, so you have to be wading to fish it. It is a bunch of BS, I have had many folks yell at me when I used to trout fish often. I don't do as much of that anymore, so I haven't had much trouble lately.

Now some of these private ponds have allowed the DNR to come in and stock the pond, and if that happens, anyone can fish it. But if you get grief you better get a letter from the DNR stating you can fish it. Others have paid the DNR to stock for their own fishing, and these can remain private if they choose to have it private.

Baxter83 · June 07, 2012, 10:35:13 AM

I've fished a retention pond outside of one of our local WalMart stores several times in the past and it has produced some decent bass in the 3lb range...

Not sure if that was legal or not, but there were no signs lol

BenFishing · June 07, 2012, 12:10:46 PM

Quote from: Creel Limit Zero on June 07, 2012, 10:24:33 AM
If it is indeed Public property, then you should be within your right to fish it. But many of these road side ponds were made for run off, and are indeed private property, even if it is not listed.

Thing is, there are no natural lakes in Maryland. Every little pond you see has been man made, so there is a high chance it is private property. Same holds true with a lot of the streams and rivers, folks own the land right up to the water, so you have to be wading to fish it. It is a bunch of BS, I have had many folks yell at me when I used to trout fish often. I don't do as much of that anymore, so I haven't had much trouble lately.

Now some of these private ponds have allowed the DNR to come in and stock the pond, and if that happens, anyone can fish it. But if you get grief you better get a letter from the DNR stating you can fish it. Others have paid the DNR to stock for their own fishing, and these can remain private if they choose to have it private.

One quick example:
The neighborhood I live in has a swamp/marsh area/ Some beavers have built a dam, and now there is a nice flooded area that offers some ok fishing. Nothing big, but plenty of numbers. It is private property, but private to all of the people that live in the neighborhood. I've called DNR, the homeowners association, the city, and local LEO, and I've been ok'ed to fish there, but on 3 separate occasions, I've been approached by LEOs claiming that I am not allowed to fish there. I've explained who I talked to before I even tried fishing this spot, and showed them every law that might pertain to this situation, and I was still repeatedly asked to leave by one of the officers. The other two expressed that they thought it was probably still illegal, but that they weren't sure for now, so they let me continue. The one officer actually threatened to arrest me. I kept arguing my point and informed that officer that we would be going to court if I was arrested, and that at the time of the arrest, the officer would have had known of no legal reason to arrest me, other than I was arguing my researched rights vs his opinion. At that point, the officer left, telling me that when they came back around in 10 minutes, I better be gone. I stayed for another hour, and did not see that officer again. Feelings and thoughts are no reason to try and stop someone from doing something that is not hurting anyone else, physically or financially, or breaking any actual laws that you KNOW of, especially when it is your job to protect and serve.
I don't go out of my way to challenge or bother LEOs, I know they deal with a lot of true a$$holes frequently....especially in the Baltimore/D.C. area. But I won't back down when, as far as I've researched, I'm not breaking any laws.

Creel Limit Zero · June 07, 2012, 12:29:55 PM

It's unusual that three times fishing the same place has brought the police by. I wonder if a resident in that area is calling them up? Seems weird to have been hit three times from the same place...

BenFishing · June 07, 2012, 12:47:16 PM

Quote from: Creel Limit Zero on June 07, 2012, 12:29:55 PM
It's unusual that three times fishing the same place has brought the police by. I wonder if a resident in that area is calling them up? Seems weird to have been hit three times from the same place...

Might have been a call. Many people have stopped and talked to me....they think it's odd, mostly because they've never seen anyone fishing it before. Most people don't believe there are even fish in this spot till they see me catch one. Small largemouth, and plenty of panfish....a few pickerel as well.

I actually think it's just because there are a lot of cops driving through here. I probably see the police 10+ times every day, driving by. They see people feeding the ducks and geese all of the time, or just sitting back and watching the water. Some dude with fishing gear might just seem odd, since they don't usually see that. I've even been stopped while just walking with my gear...asked "What are you doing," while walking with a couple fishing poles. I resisted the urge to throw out a sarcastic response, and just simply said going fishing. The officer said where, and I pointed to the marshy pond, and he asked if there were even fish in there....I said yep, he said wow, and we both went on our way.

So, I think, in this case at least, it's just the amount of police in the area, and the oddity of seeing someone fish there.

Creel Limit Zero · June 07, 2012, 12:50:03 PM

Could be, they see you enough there and they'll know it's just that clown and not bother you anymore.

BenFishing · June 07, 2012, 12:56:38 PM

Quote from: Creel Limit Zero on June 07, 2012, 12:50:03 PM
Could be, they see you enough there and they'll know it's just that clown and not bother you anymore.

That's my hope....to just be "that clown."

I like fishing these ponds and such because I do get a lot of people that don't fish, coming up to talk to me. I usually have an extra pole, so if a kid comes up and talks to me, I usually hand them a pole and get them to fish a little. These ponds and such usually have plenty of fish, so most of these kids are catching at least a fish or two on a lure, the first time they've ever fished. Not to brag about myself, but I think it's a great thing when a kid gets to learn a little bit about fishing, with some decent gear, from a dude with a moderate amount of knowledge but a lot of experience.....a great way to get some future fish-a-holics started.

Creel Limit Zero · June 07, 2012, 01:12:26 PM

That is pretty cool. Kids face when catching his first fish is priceless.

Baybass · June 08, 2012, 09:38:56 PM

Good for you that you know your rights and such, but the wrong

on the wrong day is going to toss your butt in the back seat cuffed up, may not end up well.....multiple charges and attorney and court costs so here's the answer. Don't get me wrong I'm with ya, but these guys are eventually gonna have it out for you unless you'd have someone from MD fisheries state in writing that these lakes are public to those with proper licensing.

The best time to fish these ponds is at night, so lets think tactical here. 0300/3am full lightweight camo, face paint and ski mask, black running shoes tied so tight they hurt.(stretch prior) Cover yourself in bugspray prior as well. I happen to know a guy who does this in order to stay out of trouble. He uses a Spro hollowbelly in black and green and a 3/8oz rattlin' jig in black/blue with a chiggercraw trailer. He takes one rod, one backpack and plans his escape routs ahead of time, takes a few buddies often and they park his car a few miles away through wooded terrian. If the choppers were to ever come out, just jump into a near by lake or stream and submerse down along a bank with overhanging roots. The infared will hopefully not pick you up. You should be in your car and on your way by then though. Be sure to dry out your tacke box and service your reel after this happens. It's totally woth it though sometimes.....

BenFishing · June 08, 2012, 10:23:33 PM

Quote from: Baybass on June 08, 2012, 09:38:56 PM
Good for you that you know your rights and such, but the wrong on the wrong day is going to toss your butt in the back seat cuffed up, may not end up well.....multiple charges and attorney and court costs so here's the answer. Don't get me wrong I'm with ya, but these guys are eventually gonna have it out for you unless you'd have someone from MD fisheries state in writing that these lakes are public to those with proper licensing.

The best time to fish these ponds is at night, so lets think tactical here. 0300/3am full lightweight camo, face paint and ski mask, black running shoes tied so tight they hurt.(stretch prior) Cover yourself in bugspray prior as well. I happen to know a guy who does this in order to stay out of trouble. He uses a Spro hollowbelly in black and green and a 3/8oz rattlin' jig in black/blue with a chiggercraw trailer. He takes one rod, one backpack and plans his escape routs ahead of time, takes a few buddies often and they park his car a few miles away through wooded terrian. If the choppers were to ever come out, just jump into a near by lake or stream and submerse down along a bank with overhanging roots. The infared will hopefully not pick you up. You should be in your car and on your way by then though. Be sure to dry out your tacke box and service your reel after this happens. It's totally woth it though sometimes.....

Hahahaha. As a kid, I used to do "night raids" frequently. They were a ton of fun....slightly more fun when we did have to run....but now, I keep it legal.

As far as finding the wrong cop on the wrong day, I've had that happen before. Not for fishing though. I was chopping a tree on park property...but it had fallen on the road, and I was cutting it into manageable pieces to pull off the road. The cop thought I had cut the tree down in the first place. I showed him the trunk, the beaver teeth marks, but he said it could be ax marks. He said I had the option of a ticket or jail. I said how about the option to call somebody that knows the difference between ax markings and beaver teeth markings. He said I could take the ticket and argue it in court, and that even if a beaver had taken the tree down, I had no right to move it off the road. I took out my phone and started to call DNR to get somebody that knew what they were talking about....he cuffed me. I was in the right. I was actually helping. I had just pissed off this particular cop, and he cuffed me because he was pissed. I defended myself, won, charges dropped, and demanded that he or the department pay the court costs, since I would not have those costs if he hadn't wrongfully arrested me.
I understood/understand it could have gone differently, but that's a chance I'm willing to take when it comes to our rights.
I've dealt with many cops. 99% of them are great people that know their jobs. I won't let that bottom 1% bully me and make other cops look bad, without fighting back and letting that 1% know there's a reason I consider them the bottom 1%.

I'll stick with common sense over fear, even if common snese gets me in trouble with some people that have no sense.

Fishymansaliar · June 09, 2012, 08:17:47 AM

Benfishing, seems like ur the type that the police would target. Some police might target u just for that type of attitude. Im positive u wont recover legal fees. There is something called "good faith" in maryland and most other states in the country. If the police feel they are doing the right thing and are not malicious in their intent, ur up the creek! Like baybass said push the wrong law man and u ll be posting from behind bars. Seems to me like more trouble than its worth. I would just find a reservoir or river, but thats just me. Good luck.

West6550 · June 09, 2012, 09:53:40 AM

From a LEO.

In Florida your not allowed to fish off interstates or bridges. Really it's because of parking issues and safety to be honest. I fished a local pond for 2 plus years. Contacted our Agriculture department in the county, contacted Fish & Wildlife and our Highway Patrol before fishing it. I was told to leave one day by a Highway patrol.. I notified him I looked into it and was told I was legal by above mentioned people. Also no city ordinance because I was on county land. Once I told him that he didn't care. He said I needed to load my Jon boat and leave. I showed him my badge then he told me. The company who owns the property (Toll Road) doesn't allow people on the land for liability issues. So really I wasn't in the wrong fishing but was for being on there land. Even with no posted signs or fence. I understood but, I was still aggravated..

Also wanted to note. Flex your rights! Most cops are genuine good people doing a job. But you do get the occasional "I'm a cop" mentality that makes us all look bad. Heck in Florida you can OPEN carry a firearm while fishing and to and from.. I always have a gun. Mainly because a few years ago a man was found dead in the water, his boat near a canal connecting lakes. Someone robbed him and killed him. Still unsolved... crazy people out there.

MdKamper · June 09, 2012, 10:26:24 AM

Quote from: West6550 on June 09, 2012, 09:53:40 AM
From a LEO.

In Florida your not allowed to fish off interstates or bridges. Really it's because of parking issues and safety to be honest.

In Maryland thats the case with the majority of "roadside ponds" you see ... they are on State Highways land and its not the fishing thats illegal ... its the trespassing on state property, or illegally stopping on an emergency shoulder that could get you in trouble.

20inchbass · June 09, 2012, 11:37:39 AM

To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen a pond around where I live that isn't private property. DNR has a list of ponds and such that are public, but other than those, every roadside pond I see is private. I like fishing farm ponds and such too, but I never just stop and go fish them. You have to ask permission first. So I hope all goes well for you, and I'll keep an eye out for what ponds may be public but I still have yet to find one that the DNR doesn't list.

bigjim5589 · June 09, 2012, 12:51:30 PM

QuoteIn Maryland thats the case with the majority of "roadside ponds" you see ... they are on State Highways land and its not the fishing thats illegal ... its the trespassing on state property, or illegally stopping on an emergency shoulder that could get you in trouble.

Ben, I feel your pain! I've fished all over the state and have been in situations like this too. I'm not as stubborn as you when confronted by the police. I know if I'm right or not, but right or wrong arguing with them will usually get you no where. I believe in fighting for my rights but, there's more than one way to fight a battle when it comes to legalities.

Most roadside ponds, if they're part of the roadway drainage are on public right of ways, whether owned my the state, a county or a city, but are not public property in the sense of access. As stated above, it's a matter of safety, and liability. You still need written permission, and frankly you won't get it. No one working for any of these governments will stick their neck out, because if they give permission, and you do something illegal or just stupid, it would likely come back & bite them. They won't put themselves in that position.

If the ponds are on shopping center property, or even in a development, it's private property, and again as such you would need permission. Again, you're not likely to get it because everyone is concerned about liability. Believe me, I've been thru this too.

Not far from where you live is a stream I used to fish often, but no longer do. I used to park on the shoulder & walk down to the stream & fish. Now, there are no parking signs all along the roadway. The issue was started by kids partying there at night, some under age. The police could not really stop them from parking along the road, so the county put up the signs. Now, the police can enforce the no parking. Legally, the stream can still be fished, no law against that, but parking legally is now the problem. It's not fair to those of us who stopped there to fish, but that's the way it is. The police cannot be everywhere, all the time, so in this case the no parking signs gave them the legal means to stop the kids from being there.

If you don't mind me asking, where are the locations that you're having this problem with the police?

Send me a PM if you wish.

Perhaps I can give you some advise on why you're having the problem.

bassincali · June 09, 2012, 01:20:33 PM

have the law or the dnr book and have the dnr on speed dial they are state officers they over ride local law enforcement they will back you if you are in the right

bigjim5589 · June 09, 2012, 01:37:34 PM

Quotehave the law or the dnr book and have the dnr on speed dial they are state officers they over ride local law enforcement they will back you if you are in the right

In MD you won't get too many LEO of any type to want to confront another LEO. If it's a county officer he's having issues with, it may be a county law in question. State officers do not over ride anyone, you can be sure of that. The DNR in MD are State Police, they have the same authority as the State Troopers, but may not be as informed about local laws as local police, so you won't find many who will back you. If the officer in question is doing something illegal, that may be a different matter, but if it's a difference of opinion about whether or not laws are actually being violated, good luck with getting another officer involved. It rarely happens. Been there, done that!

Besides, the Law code in MD is volumes, so having a book in hand does not guarantee you're right. DNR guide books are abridged, and may not contain every law for every situation. That's what lawyers are for!

bassincali · June 09, 2012, 01:48:58 PM

wow ive had dfg guys fight for me. i was fishing in a spot that is considered ok to fish but this marina guy throwed us out untill i call the dfg and the guy had to back off it came down to having the law printed out and proving the point everything is closed to fishing out here in the delta they closed off shore fishing by using the dept of reclamation and there is no way to get around it even though the fishing regs state we have a right to fish i feel for you good luck and be careful

bigjim5589 · June 09, 2012, 03:06:22 PM

I think in Ben's case it may be more of a local law pertaining to trespassing rather than an issue with natural resources laws. Just because the DNR has told him it's OK to fish there, it's likely only OK if he gets permission from the property owners, whomever that may be. Then the local police would have jurisdiction not the NRP (Natural Resources Police). However, as I also stated, the NRP are state police, and can enforce trespassing laws too. I've even seen them pull cars over for speeding. They don't do it often, but they do have the authority. So, they're not going to get in an argument with a county officer if the situation may be one of local laws being enforced. Most of the LEO in this state will back each other when there's a question of what laws might be in question.

As I said before, I've been in similar situations. There's a drainage pond I used to fish that was on private property, a shopping center property. One side bordered the county road. I fished from that side. I got checked one day by a NRP who saw me & just checked my license. As far as he was concerned, I was fishing legally. However a county officer also stopped at the same time, and told me I could not fish there. The property owner had complained about folks fishing there and didn't want people there. The two officers were cool about it, but I was told I had to leave, that technically they both agreed, I was trespassing, even though I was standing on the county right of way. The NRP officer was not aware of the complaint by the property owner in this case.

They eventually put a big fence around that pond so it didn't matter anyway.

BenFishing · June 10, 2012, 08:37:19 AM

Quote from: Fishymansaliar on June 09, 2012, 08:17:47 AM
Benfishing, seems like ur the type that the police would target. Some police might target u just for that type of attitude. Im positive u wont recover legal fees. There is something called "good faith" in maryland and most other states in the country. If the police feel they are doing the right thing and are not malicious in their intent, ur up the creek! Like baybass said push the wrong law man and u ll be posting from behind bars. Seems to me like more trouble than its worth. I would just find a reservoir or river, but thats just me. Good luck.

Why would I be the type that would be targeted? My attitude on this post is not the attitude I carry everywhere. An LEO doesn't know who I am when they randomly walk up to me. And, like I said before, I respect Law Enforcement, and I treat them with respect, UNLESS they don't treat me with respect.....that's also the way I work with all people.
You can challenge good faith in court. I did in the case I mentioned about the tree, and my court costs were paid. Arresting someone when you can't prove they are doing something wrong, don't know of any actual laws that are being broken, and nobody's safety is threatened, well to me, that sounds malicious....."I don't know, so it must be illegal" is not real reason to arrest a person. Last I checked, we still go by innocent until proven guilty.
Doing the things I'm allowed to do, and want to do, is never more trouble than its worth. If I find out I'm in the wrong, I'll take my lumps, no fuss. But, if I'm in the right, and prove it, then maybe the next guy who drives by after work, and just wants to throw a line to relieve some stress, won't have to deal with the trouble of someone "feeling" that he can't do that.
Like I've said, 99% of cops I've met have been great people that know their jobs and have treated me with respect. It's that 1% that I'm talking about, that wants to enforce feelings, rather than laws.....that think it's just easier to give a ticket or arrest someone, rather than do a bit of research to find out whether or not that person is allowed to do what they are doing. If I've already talked with the city, the state, DNR, and the local police, who is that ONE officer to say no?
I'm a nice, polite guy to everyone I meet, but if they get rude for no reason, I don't care who they are....you get what you give.