Ike Talks Tourney Info gathering

-Shawn- · November 03, 2011, 02:48:01 PM

http://www.bassfan.com/news_article.asp?id=4103

What are your thoughts on this?

As for me........ Well I don't totally agree with Ike.

First and Formost Ike has the same oportunities as everyone else Pre off-limits.
Second if he is going to say He doesn't have the time to Visit the water pre off-limits then That is on him, He chose to fish tours that he doesn't have the time to fish.

I DO get aggrevated with my own Trails, because I don't have the prefish time that most of the others do, But, with that said, it is nobodys fault but my own.

I am the only one that limits my prefish,, the other anglers are fishing under the same rules I am. They just make different decisions about how much time and Money they spend prefishing.

DBrooke · November 03, 2011, 03:17:43 PM

1. He really needs to shave

I agree with you on the pre off limits time, but I hand it to him he does fish a lot of tourneys. To come in 2nd vs. a guy who had a heck of a lot more time showed why he is a top angler.
Now, maybe for you YOU are the only one that limits your prefish, but I don't agree on that one. I think life and our obligations limit how much prefish time you get. Like for example you have to make a living, correct? Well it just so happens that your career makes it so you are not home enough on weekends to prefish like the rest. But you only have so much control over that right? I mean sure you can not take loads and lose money, but you have priorities right.
Same thing with some (I did say some) pro anglers. They struggle themselves to pay bills and from some angles all they can do is book as many tournaments as possible to try to maximize their income and "popularity" which affects their income.

So there you have it Shawn. I agreed with you but at the same time (and 1st time I think) I disagreed with you

Let the DB bashing begin

smallie hunter · November 03, 2011, 03:44:19 PM

If everything the others did was legal I have no issues. Read the article below he wrote on bassmaster. He got info from Ish in practice on Oneida. If he did not get info he probably would not have finished as high as he did.

http://www.bassmaster.com/blog/oneida-was-awesome

DBrooke · November 03, 2011, 03:52:44 PM

Which is the same thing as me getting info from... say Shawn.

Crankbait1007 · November 03, 2011, 04:13:39 PM

This is interesting. I used to be against the Pro's fishing the opens....have had a slight change of heart. I here were Ike is coming from. Then again those guys might not have the income he has. They might have to do whatever they can to get ahead. Rules are just that rules. They don't always make it a level playing field all the time. Sure Snowden and Combs took more time to be out on the water than Ike. Maybe there should be some tournaments that clear gps chips are the only thing they should have. Different type of tournament with different rules. Tournaments on the Pro level are tough....tough to get to that level and tough to compete. I wish they got salaries and not the pay to play way it is.

DBrooke · November 03, 2011, 04:45:08 PM

Salaries=Bad Idea, but I think with all the big Sponsors out there these days there should be a few no entry fee tourneys for the pros. Salaries would kill the sport, look at any other sport involving a ball and you'll see they are all overpaid for what they do. No matter how well they play that day they still get a fat check. Back in the day before all these multi million dollar deals, ball players played with their hearts and no their wallets. To me, most anglers still do this because it is in them, not always for the money.

Crankbait1007 · November 04, 2011, 01:41:43 AM

Quote from: DBrooke on November 03, 2011, 04:45:08 PM
Salaries=Bad Idea, but I think with all the big Sponsors out there these days there should be a few no entry fee tourneys for the pros. Salaries would kill the sport, look at any other sport involving a ball and you'll see they are all overpaid for what they do. No matter how well they play that day they still get a fat check. Back in the day before all these multi million dollar deals, ball players played with their hearts and no their wallets. To me, most anglers still do this because it is in them, not always for the money.

DBrooke I see your point and that's a good one but let me ask you a question. Don't you think there are many anglers out there that we will never see due to the high cost of both entry fees and just the expense of day to day competing? I'm always (well often anyway) rooting for the underdog because a win can bring in a new member into the sport. I think there are guys out there who would offer character to the sport but will probably never offer anything to the sport. Maybe not the Elites but a series under them bringing them up to the Elites. Maybe make their salaries be based more on wins and performance. Just a thought. I don't think we will ever see a day when the Bass Pros would make huge salaries like some of the athletes out here.

bassn1 · November 04, 2011, 07:55:26 AM

Very interesting debate. I believe that someday the pro will get a check to fish Inventational Tournaments. Simular to Golf.

kidd · November 04, 2011, 09:49:46 AM

Quote from: DBrooke on November 03, 2011, 04:45:08 PM
look at any other sport involving a ball and you'll see they are all overpaid for what they do. No matter how well they play that day they still get a fat check. Back in the day before all these multi million dollar deals, ball players played with their hearts and no their wallets.

Agree 100% with this part.

coldfront · November 04, 2011, 10:03:13 AM

Quote from: -Shawn- on November 03, 2011, 02:48:01 PM
I DO get aggrevated with my own Trails, because I don't have the prefish time that most of the others do, But, with that said, it is nobodys fault but my own.

I am the only one that limits my prefish,, the other anglers are fishing under the same rules I am. They just make different decisions about how much time and Money they spend prefishing.

understand and agree with the frustration. too, you are exactly right: it's about how much an angle wants to invest in the process...I know that I have to put in a lot more hours/prep time to compete with folks who know a body of water much better than I do...that's a given.

Then again, no matter what endeavor in life I've participated in...my job, sports...whatever...I've found there are folks who seem to be able to do better even while preparing less than I can...

Mostly I've learned that there are things I need to do to be successful. And if I chose to NOT do them; to not prepare as thoroughly as I can/need to, then the outcome is 'on me' and only me...

Using this article...Brian Snowden went out and did what he needed to do be be successful. Nothing wrong; everything right about that. apparently Ike and the rest of the anglers 'did not'...if we define success as first place and only first place (which I submit is not correct)

It's not talent that puts an angler on top (I'd argue they are all just about equally capable)...it's frankly working smarter AND harder than the competition.

bassn1 · November 04, 2011, 12:21:57 PM

CF, very well put. "We are what we are and who we are because of what we put into our minds".

Andrew · November 04, 2011, 02:09:41 PM

Ike is Ike. He has fished every major lake in the United States. Kept notes and diaries on these lakes. That saves him lots of time having to prefish them. He is a busy guy and still places high in tournaments. If he did get to prefish every tournament there would be lot less kVD at the top.

Sharing info is a mute point. Almost every pro does it. Does it matter? No, they still have to go catch those fish. Salaries would ruin the sport. There's only a few sponsors that could pay the top pros to fish at that level. All these little wanna be start up tackle makers that sponsor some pro's couldn't afford to pay any top pro a salary to fish. Basically if you wanna play with the big boys you gotta pay. Simple..

DBrooke · November 04, 2011, 03:38:24 PM

Quote from: Crankbait1007 on November 04, 2011, 01:41:43 AM
DBrooke I see your point and that's a good one but let me ask you a question. Don't you think there are many anglers out there that we will never see due to the high cost of both entry fees and just the expense of day to day competing?

Yeah, Me!!

-Shawn- · November 04, 2011, 07:12:45 PM

DB, I do see your point, but the rules are the same for every angler in the field.
Therefore, I can't be upset at another angler for outworking me on a body of water.

DBrooke · November 04, 2011, 07:48:37 PM

Agreed, I didn't mean that you should be upset at them. All I was saying is you really don't have that much control over your prefishing because of our career. You have to keep the wheels burning to pay bills and that's what keeps you from prefishing like the others.

topcat · November 04, 2011, 09:57:53 PM

I agree with Ike on the info part of his statement.....In my opinion all way points and GPS info should be banned from all tourneys....I know for a fact that some pros buy way points and GPS info....some pros have other people fishing lakes and giving them data .....I had a Friend of mine who fished for pros and passed info on to them......at the cost as high as 10% of the winnings the pro won...He still does that today....to me that is not a level playing field...He is fishing for the classic as I speak.....his info will help some pro win or place and he will get as much as 10% of the winnings.....In this day and time you got to have money and lots of it to win.....

Now concerning the pre-fishing I think it should be done away with period ... Let them fish with no time spent on the lake (they are pros so they say )....This way we get to see who is who.....a lot of the so called pros would have to get a real job and become a weekend Angler like the rest of us.......If you are like Ike and building you a brand so you don't have to rely on winning tourneys....you can't get upset when others anglers beat you....You can't have your cake and eat it to........

Topcat

bassincali · November 04, 2011, 10:16:50 PM

i do not fish turneys but this year i planed and over thought with bad results then just went and had a good time and did much better and was happy when i got home

-Shawn- · November 05, 2011, 01:00:56 PM

You will never stop info gathering.
Without GPS waypoints, they will revert back to lineups like we did before gps came along. With side imaging the waypoints can be found quickly on the water anyway.

Crankbait1007 · November 06, 2011, 12:36:39 AM

Quote from: Andrew on November 04, 2011, 02:09:41 PM
Salaries would ruin the sport. There's only a few sponsors that could pay the top pros to fish at that level. All these little wanna be start up tackle makers that sponsor some pro's couldn't afford to pay any top pro a salary to fish. Basically if you wanna play with the big boys you gotta pay. Simple..

Andrew I agree with what you said about Ike and his methods. But a lot of the top lure companies today were little wanna be start ups not too long ago.....just my 2 cents. I hear what you're saying to about paying to play and I'm not necessarily saying the elites and flw should be salaried but think of this how many pro ballers (football, basketball, and baseball) do you think we would be without if they had to pay to play??

Andrew · November 06, 2011, 01:26:15 AM

Quote from: Crankbait1007 on November 06, 2011, 12:36:39 AM
Andrew I agree with what you said about Ike and his methods. But a lot of the top lure companies today were little wanna be start ups not too long ago.....just my 2 cents. I hear what you're saying to about paying to play and I'm not necessarily saying the elites and flw should be salaried but think of this how many pro ballers (football, basketball, and baseball) do you think we would be without if they had to pay to play??

Yea I didn't mean anything bad bout these companies. I use a lot of them myself and love them. But to have to pay high salaries to bass fisherman would break some of the smaller ones that sponsors some of these anglers.

Guess I'm a dummy because I quit watching mainstream sports years ago. I got turned off by the greed, the drugs, the arrests ect. All though I do miss me some Hank Aaron and Reggie Jackson when I was a little kid, man they were great. Those were the days when you could look up to someone. Maybe I'm wrong but to me bass angling is the greatest sport ever. And I would hate to see it sell out like the other mentioned sports and see those same problems with the bass pro's.

coldfront · November 06, 2011, 07:20:21 AM

Quote from: topcat on November 04, 2011, 09:57:53 PM

Now concerning the pre-fishing I think it should be done away with period ... Let them fish with no time spent on the lake (they are pros so they say )....This way we get to see who is who.....a lot of the so called pros would have to get a real job and become a weekend Angler like the rest of us.......If you are like Ike and building you a brand so you don't have to rely on winning tourneys....you can't get upset when others anglers beat you....You can't have your cake and eat it to........

Topcat

some outstanding words TC~

putting them out there on an 'unknown' lake every time...would make it tougher on the anglers...really showcase a different set of skills for sure...AND result in smaller bags of fish and less TV 'wow' factor (I'm guessing at this one)...

I'd love to see this as a 'circuit' idea..

Flyswatter · November 06, 2011, 04:55:30 PM

Quote from: -Shawn- on November 03, 2011, 02:48:01 PM
http://www.bassfan.com/news_article.asp?id=4103

What are your thoughts on this?

As for me........ Well I don't totally agree with Ike.

First and Formost Ike has the same oportunities as everyone else Pre off-limits.
Second if he is going to say He doesn't have the time to Visit the water pre off-limits then That is on him, He chose to fish tours that he doesn't have the time to fish.

I DO get aggrevated with my own Trails, because I don't have the prefish time that most of the others do, But, with that said, it is nobodys fault but my own.

I am the only one that limits my prefish,, the other anglers are fishing under the same rules I am. They just make different decisions about how much time and Money they spend prefishing.

Couldn't agree more. I like IKE, he's good for the sport but his obligations are not the standard for the rest of the field. He has choices and he prefers not to invest the extended time to prefish. This is a case he being a victim of his own circumstances.

coldfront · November 07, 2011, 08:26:37 AM

Quote from: Crankbait1007 on November 04, 2011, 01:41:43 AM
...Don't you think there are many anglers out there that we will never see due to the high cost of both entry fees and just the expense of day to day competing?

thought this a very interesting question...

why should it matter to all of us, or any of us, whethe we will/won't see every angler out there?

A guy who will 'MAKE' it his priority to do well...to the exclusion of so many other things...sometimes, this included family...and then is successful...or not successful...

that angler has still done it on their own...

I've looked at fishing those tournaments...then refocussed and looked hard at the lower tier tournaments: I just don't have the time, $$ or 'gumption' to do what it would take for me to be competitive...too much other stuff (kids hockey, music concerts...family stuff, job, hobbies...) I ALLOW to get in the way...(actually I CHOOSE those things...

)

If the answer is that we want to make it so that more folks can compete...I thought we already did that with the vast plethora of tournament opportunities? From the smallest of clubs all the way up to the Elites...there's a place for everyone to fish tournaments if they want to...

AS they want to...

bassn1 · November 07, 2011, 08:34:02 AM

Quote from: coldfront on November 07, 2011, 08:26:37 AM
thought this a very interesting question...

why should it matter to all of us, or any of us, whethe we will/won't see every angler out there?

A guy who will 'MAKE' it his priority to do well...to the exclusion of so many other things...sometimes, this included family...and then is successful...or not successful...

that angler has still done it on their own...

I've looked at fishing those tournaments...then refocussed and looked hard at the lower tier tournaments: I just don't have the time, $$ or 'gumption' to do what it would take for me to be competitive...too much other stuff (kids hockey, music concerts...family stuff, job, hobbies...) I ALLOW to get in the way...(actually I CHOOSE those things... )

If the answer is that we want to make it so that more folks can compete...I thought we already did that with the vast plethora of tournament opportunities? From the smallest of clubs all the way up to the Elites...there's a place for everyone to fish tournaments if they want to...

AS they want to...

CF - Great post!

Any angler who makes these Tournaments his priority will find a way to participate.

coldfront · November 07, 2011, 10:05:04 AM

bouncing around the net this morning...found this...nice article from Mark Davis on tournament angling...

http://www.bassmaster.com/blog/pick-your-bass-fishing-circuit

loved this part:

Quote...For those of you looking towards a pro or semi-pro career...

... Your expectations should be realistic. There are lots of really good anglers out there. When you first start fishing at this level it'll be tough. You'll get beat a lot more often than you win. In return for that, however, you'll learn to fish. That's your goal, so you'll have no reason to complain. Take your medicine and move on...