Tungsten vs. Lead

Kuntry Jr. · March 13, 2011, 01:13:02 PM

My friend and I got into a friendly argument the other day that tungsten was not worth it, and that lead is better because you can buy 10 for $5 bucks vs. 4 for $5.

So this raised a question in my mind is it really worth it or is it just another way to get our money?

What are your thoughts?

bigjim5589 · March 13, 2011, 01:46:27 PM

I think it really depends on your perspective & perhaps financial situation. At some point, I expect lead to be phased out completely due to environmental & health fears. At this time, both can still have a place in my tackle box. If you're taking about worm weights, I like the fact that tungsten is denser, so it has a smaller profile for the same weight compared to lead, meaning if you need a weight that doesn't hang up as easily, tungsten is a good choice. If you just need weight, without the concern for hanging up, lead still works. I've got a few tungsten jigs too. I can see situations that they'll come in handy, but for the most part, lead jigs work just as well for me. Actually, I pour a lot of my own jigs. I won't be able to do that with tungsten. If I can no longer use lead, I'll either be forced to stop pouring, or use either tin or bismuth, and both of them are a lot more expensive, and less available than lead.

Lead is still less expensive, but to me it's like comparing Luck Craft lures to Bandit lures. I have both, and they both catch fish. It just depends on whether or not I'm willing to spend the extra money for tungsten. Sometimes I am when I have it, sometimes not when I don't.
Either way I'm not going to stop fishing because I can't afford tungsten. I guess most folks would look at it the same way.

coldfront · March 13, 2011, 03:23:07 PM

I will not use lead for my bullet weights any more. the increased sensitivity I get is that significant.

there's a point, however, where your rod may/may not allow you to detect it. My cumaras...and my Cabelas XMLs do just that: they allow me to tell the difference in sensitivity between the two weight materials.

Even on monofilament line...

and, I get more bites converted to hook ups as a result...I am certain of this...

mattorschell · March 13, 2011, 06:41:18 PM

The increased sensitivity is worth the money for me.

islandbass · March 14, 2011, 06:43:52 PM

There is no right or wrong here. It's a personal choice and decision.

For me, I do not think the extra sensitivity that W gives is worth its price, and it is simply just not in my budget when you consider that I fish rip rap 85% of the time I fish. I can lose 10 weights in 20 minutes. If I used W, I'd be one broke son of a gun.

So for me, it is a matter of economics. No W for me because it would be too expensive. It doesn't mean I think W stinks. It's just not in my budget to use.

Therefore, for me, it's definitely Pb.

fishingfanatic14 · March 14, 2011, 11:07:44 PM

It makes no difference. They do the exact samething and I have used tungsten before. It didnt give increased sensitivity or anything for me. I dont rely on my weight for sensitivity. Why spend $5 on 4 weights when you can spend $5 and get 10-15 weights. You wont win Kuntry Jr.!

-Shawn- · March 15, 2011, 12:17:59 AM

You have to rely on your weight for sensetivity, it is the only way you can feel the bottom.

Tungsten is Denser than lead, therefore it transmits vibrations better, that is simple physics.

The same weight Tunsten is smaller than an identical weight lead sinker. That lets it do many things better than lead. it comes through cover better slides through grass easier and the most important it slides through a bass' lips better, which let's the hook do it's job better. with all other thing being equal, tungsten will put more fish in the boat.

mattorschell · March 15, 2011, 12:21:08 AM

Quote from: fishingfanatic14 on March 14, 2011, 11:07:44 PM
It makes no difference. They do the exact samething and I have used tungsten before. It didnt give increased sensitivity or anything for me. I dont rely on my weight for sensitivity. Why spend $5 on 4 weights when you can spend $5 and get 10-15 weights. You wont win Kuntry Jr.!

Do you use it with Fluorocarbon? I can definitely tell a difference with flouro but not Mono. Plus the same weight in tungsten is much smaller which is a big difference for me. I understand the cost issue but they are not the same. I hate dropping the money on them especially if you are fishing area's that you break off alot. Something like a tungstein weight should not cost so much

You got my vote Kuntry Jr!

Deluca · March 15, 2011, 06:53:00 AM

Working for about $8 an hour, I think it would kill me to drop $6 for 1-2 tungsten weights, when I can get about 20 lead weights for that price.

tim4081 · March 15, 2011, 07:05:47 AM

I tried tungsten weights for the first time last year and could definitely tell the difference....a lot more sensitive. But I also understand how the economics of how lead vs tungsten comes into play. Everyone's situation is different and you can't be concerned with "what if I lose this tackle" or you won't fish effectively.....just like if you're throwing a $15-20 crankbait. If you're worried about losing it you're not going to throw in to a tough area where that fish is sitting.

-Shawn- · March 15, 2011, 07:08:46 AM

I fish Tungsten on braid most of the time, so I don't lose alot.

Guys Tim is right on the money here.

bass1cpr · March 15, 2011, 07:33:01 AM

Tungsten definatley improves your feel of what your fishing reguardless of the line. I've fished Tungsten weights ever since Lake Fork Tackle brought them to the market. It's the only weights I have used for years now. Want to learn how to loose fewer weights and lures just learn how to do the bow pop and don't jerk your rod when you get hung up that just sets the hook it doesn't free your snag. Most times if you hang up instead just do the statue of liberty move, lift your arm up like the lady holding the torch and usually your hangup will come undone. It's changing the angle and position of your rod and line when you got hung up without jerking and your bait and weight will usually slide free. Iv'e tought that to a lot of guys and it really makes a differance.

Deluca · March 15, 2011, 07:56:29 AM

Quote from: tim4081 on March 15, 2011, 07:05:47 AM
I tried tungsten weights for the first time last year and could definitely tell the difference....a lot more sensitive. But I also understand how the economics of how lead vs tungsten comes into play. Everyone's situation is different and you can't be concerned with "what if I lose this tackle" or you won't fish effectively.....just like if you're throwing a $15-20 crankbait. If you're worried about losing it you're not going to throw in to a tough area where that fish is sitting.

Also the same reason I use Strike King or Bandit crankbaits

coldfront · March 15, 2011, 08:40:13 AM

Quote from: Deluca on March 15, 2011, 07:56:29 AM
Also the same reason I use Strike King or Bandit crankbaits

more $$$ is not always better...and yes, I too prefer Bandits...and Strike Kings...and Normans...

and if I were fishing places where I was not getting my tungsten back...you can bet I'd be tossing lead too...

regardless of the weight I'm throwing...they are all painted black.

pawpaw · March 15, 2011, 09:12:57 AM

I have used tungsten for several years for the previously mentioned reasons, and I am not about to pay for a LC. Also I don't loose very many of them compared to lead and you can get some deals on them if you look around.

screwballl · March 15, 2011, 01:51:23 PM

Personally I have seen zero difference between the 2 so I plan to stick with lead as long as they are legally sold, and when they start phasing them out I will buy my own lead making setup and continue doing it that way. I see this as a eco-nut forcing government intervention into personal lives by using falsified and cherry picked data to claim all this lead is poisoning the fish and water ways, yet in reality, the lead lost is such a tiny amount that it leads to less than 0.000001% variation from naturally occurring lead found in most plants, sediment, silt and animals anyways.

As it relates to fishing, I think this is more of a confidence thing. From my perspective, I see this as a psychological viewpoint: you know you spent (aka wasted) more money on tungsten so you lead yourself to believe it is worth the money by claiming it has better sensitivity.
In reality, there has been test after test showing there is no difference aside from the density difference. Tungsten has a higher density so the same weight can be half the size of its lead counterpart. Otherwise there is zero difference in the feel or sensitivity of one versus the other. This sensitivity is based on the line and rod, not the weight at the very end. The weight does not transmit anything, it is there as its name implies, as a weight, to weigh something down.

Creel Limit Zero · March 15, 2011, 02:17:47 PM

Sorry screwball, I humbly disagree with you. The tungsten weight is absolutely transmitting a different signal through the same exact set up. When I first started using tungsten I did throw both. I would throw 1/4 ounce of lead on the same line, same rod, same reel, and then throw a 1/4 ounce of tungsten on the same line, same rod, same reel and found a huge difference in the feel I was getting. Take a 1/4 ounce of tungsten and a 1/4 ounce of lead and drop them on a hard counter top and tell me there is not a sound difference. If the sound is different then of course the waves of vibration sent down the line, to the rod, and to the reel is going to feel different in your hand.

So the feel is different.

2nd - the size is a huge advantage. You get hung up less because it is almost 1/2 the size. So this is huge to me when fishing in laydowns. I'm not getting hung up on a branch and forced to break off or ruin the fishing spot because I'm getting my bait back.

3rd - the size is smaller so it can get through grass and stay in the fish's mouth during a hook set much easier. If you are punching with a 1-1/2 ounce lead weight because you need the extra size to get through the matt, and I'm fishing with a 1 ounce tungsten weight and sliding through the grass easier. My bet is I'm going to catch more fish majority of the time with the smaller weight. Once in a while the bass might prefer a faster crashing bait in the matt and then your heavier weight might work. But hook up ratio I bet won't be as sound with the huge 1-1/2 ounce lead weight...

coldfront · March 15, 2011, 02:29:37 PM

CLZ: last year I was fishing a club tournament. My co was struggling to get bit. I was tossing a 3.5" tube wih a 1/8 oz tungsten weight up to the shoreline...dragging it back along the bottom in about 1 foot of water...the key was to have it hit sticks (bunch of elm trees lined the shore and their small branches break off)...twigs...on the bottom and let it sit...

I was hitting good numbers of fish (five up on him in a short stretch of water)...and I offered to let him borrow a weight. Long and short: the change from a lead to tungsten made enough of an impression upon him that he's switched. and this guy was never going to use tungsten because they were just too darned expensive.

the are not cheap...for me, they're still worth it...but that's a personal choice. And i'd agree that lead is probably not the biggest deal in terms of environmental impacts...but ask me sometime how I feel about all our new 'twirly mercury vapor driven lightbulbs'...and the pending 'heavy metal' levels going up in our ground water as a consequence...

ex301p · March 15, 2011, 04:11:36 PM

So where does Brass and Steel Weights fit into the picture? Anybody use these?

willthebad · March 15, 2011, 05:09:54 PM

I dont have a problem throwing tungsten. Sure it costs more, but you can find better prices ordering online, and to tell you the truth I dont use 3/4 and 1oz flipping weights en masse, so I just have a couple of each, not a whole box full, and it suits my pocket book quite well. They are smaller and more sensitive on braid and fluro for sure...

I will be the first person NOT to spend $300.00 on weights, but $20 or $30, why not? You spend so much more money on other crap and prolly use it less than 20% of the time you fish...

You fit the weight with the situation. If I am tossing a 1/2oz tungsten weight that I paid 6$ for, I won't be throwing it on 10lb test line. Id be throwing it on 20lb test probably, if not braid.

95% of the water I fish is cypress trees, stumps, and rip rap, and I don't lose many weights. Oh well, to each his own. As long as Im fishing and theyre biting, Im happy...

-Shawn- · March 21, 2011, 12:30:10 PM

Quote from: screwballl on March 15, 2011, 01:51:23 PM
Personally I have seen zero difference between the 2 so I plan to stick with lead as long as they are legally sold, and when they start phasing them out I will buy my own lead making setup and continue doing it that way. I see this as a eco-nut forcing government intervention into personal lives by using falsified and cherry picked data to claim all this lead is poisoning the fish and water ways, yet in reality, the lead lost is such a tiny amount that it leads to less than 0.000001% variation from naturally occurring lead found in most plants, sediment, silt and animals anyways.

As it relates to fishing, I think this is more of a confidence thing. From my perspective, I see this as a psychological viewpoint: you know you spent (aka wasted) more money on tungsten so you lead yourself to believe it is worth the money by claiming it has better sensitivity.
In reality, there has been test after test showing there is no difference aside from the density difference. Tungsten has a higher density so the same weight can be half the size of its lead counterpart. Otherwise there is zero difference in the feel or sensitivity of one versus the other. This sensitivity is based on the line and rod, not the weight at the very end. The weight does not transmit anything, it is there as its name implies, as a weight, to weigh something down.

Screwball, the density is precisely the reason tungsten transmits vibration better. The softer the media the more vibration and energy it can absorb and the less vibration it transmits. The same is true for Flouro line, it is denser and transmits vibration better than Mono or Copoly. There is a huge difference in what you can feel on the bottom. It does not affteft how you feel a bite, but feeling the bottom is way different and is extremely important when you are fishing away from the bank.

bigjim5589 · March 21, 2011, 01:18:20 PM

Shawn, I think it also depends on the person. I don't "feel" tungsten any differently than lead, they both have the same feel to me, even with braid. We are all different, just like one person says a certain rod feels more sensitive to them, yet another person has a different opinion about the same rod. I agree with you, tungsten being more dense should transmit vibration better than lead, but I've just not experienced it yet. When I first started using jigs a lot I had the same issue, I couldn't tell much about what I felt with them, but after more experience with them it got better. In my case it may be the same with tungsten.

-Shawn- · March 21, 2011, 02:19:30 PM

With a GOOD rod braided line and tungsten I can tell you EXactly what is on the bottom. I can tell you if it is sand, Muck, gravel, shellbeds or bedrock or wood and I can tell you what kind of emergent grass it is by feel. I can not do that with lead. Crash lost a a couple of bets this weekend on different grass types in an area.

Experience does play a part, but when you have the right equipment you can tell subtle differences in everything on the bottom. Being able to pick out grass edges where 2 types of grass meet was VERY important in my pattern for bigger fish this past week, Live mussel beds were alot more productive than dead ones too. The feel was whole shells VS broken or open shells. I can't see that on electronics but I can feel it with the rod with tungsten.

Using Braid mainline and a Tunsten weight on a Crig is whole other world with what you can learn about the bottom. Lead has a VERY dead/dull feel to it, where the feel with tungsten is very crisp.

bigjim5589 · March 21, 2011, 02:50:27 PM

Well, that may be the difference. You seem to be more in tune with what you're feeling than I am. I can feel differences in what's on the bottom, but only that some things are harder than others. Gravel has a different feel to it than sand, but if I pull a weight, either tungsten or lead over a rock, sure there's a different feel, but it could be someone's lost anchor too & I wouldn't be able to tell with either lead or tungsten simply by the vibration.

-Shawn- · March 21, 2011, 02:59:31 PM

If you spend a little time with a good rod and tungsten you would pick it up real quick. Now Braid has a TON to do with the feel too. The very best way to learn is go out with 2 rods set up identical except for on one use Tunsten and Braid and the other use Mono and lead and make repeated cast with each on the same peice of structure with both rods, You will see the difference in a hurry.