Oil based scents v/s water based scents????

[Baron49]

Seems the more I read the more I get confused about how a fish reacts to scents.  For years we were told use anise oil to coat worms and plastics.  Then came the flavored oils, after that it took off with more kinds of scents and products then you can list including the newer paste type scents you smear all over your lures like Mega Strike as just one example.

What I have found out by reading is most of the oil based scents really don't do anything to attract fish as fish cannot smell scents in oil based products.....   Oil and water do not mix and as a result fish cannot smell it?  If this is true then what about gasoline and motor oil and well as oils from humans that are supposed to put off fish?

Any one else have any thoughts or ideas that are based in some kind of fact/study/or article?  We all have opinions as do I, but what I am looking for is something based on facts as to the difference between oil based and water based attractants. 

[Jared LeBlue]

I think the name fish attractant is very deceiving. I don't believe that any of that stuff actually attracts fish. I think it does a decent job at covering odors but that's about it. I am also not totally convinced that human scent is a repellant. I think some people have certain chemicals that their bodies produce that are offensive to fish and a cover scent can mask that. These chemicals are either high in acidity or have low ph  or some kind screwed up combination but whatever it is the fish and for that matter animals in general don't like it. Have you ever noticed that there are some people who can just flat out catch fish and are very lucky when it comes time for hunting while others who are good sportsman and anglers have to struggle to get their game? I really believe that has to do with this chemical make up I am talking about. I know this kind of got off topic but to answer your question I thought this would give a better explaination as to why I think some people should use some type of cover scent. I think any if not all these products work well to cover or mask that undesired scent.

[Kuntry Jr.]

I know it helps the fish hold on longer to a jig for me, but then again that could be just confidence.

[coldfront]

What I have found out by reading is most of the oil based scents really don't do anything to attract fish as fish cannot smell scents in oil based products.....   Oil and water do not mix and as a result fish cannot smell it?  If this is true then what about gasoline and motor oil and well as oils from humans that are supposed to put off fish?

uh oh...     Baron is back with some great questions...thoughts and observations...

it's funny, but oils can be volatile as well...and I think it's a substance' volatility (ability to disperse in very fine particles) that allows it to be 'smelled' or 'sensed via olfactory nerve'...  now, if i were to try and design a 'scent'...I'd probalby want the particles to disperse in as fine a 'mist/manner' as possible...

on the other hand, do we really think that fish 'hone in' on either bluegill or crayfish by following a scent trail?

I do strongly believe that the scent products I use tend to coerce a fish into holding on to a lure longer...or commit to a more aggressive 'take'...

for me, scent works better in colder waters...where regardless of oil or water based, scent dispersion is slowed down...


I know...a bunch of random thoughts.

[bass1cpr]

   I lean more to Jared's thinking it mask's possible scents that may be a turn off. The main differance is watrer based will blend and disapate faster meaning it need's to be added more often. Oil base will stick to the lure better and last longer on the bait. Once a bass has it in it's mouth is when it decides to accept or reject what it has just grabbed.
   Bass feed by two main functions Lateral Line and sight with sight being secondary. The prey is first located with the lateral line, it's aware of the vibrations of the possible target before it see's it. Even a blind bass will still find some food. It just may take more attempts to be sucsessful without sight. Now catfish their the ones with all the receptors for hunting by taste.
   There are days it seems I get more bites using a scent product but normally I don't add it until I"ve had trouble getting a bite. I probably use Zoom and Yamamoto products the most for my plastics but at one time I was a die hard Power Bait user. I do still use some powerbait products but not near what I use to use. I guess that's because I've built confidence in other products over the years and in my ability to catch fish.

[Baron49]

Some interesting answers.   

Here is my take on it and what I use and why.  Basically I use "Gamefish," an anise oil compound and it has worked for years to keep my plastic baits from drying out.  Gamefish seems to react with Berkley Power baits and I keep them separate and in sealed ziplocks.  Honestly don't think the anise oil does anything other then float off the baits to the surface when fishing them.  Fishing the Berkley Power Baits I have seen where the fish seem to bite and hang on to the baits longer.  Especially when using them as a trailer on a jig. 

As far as the cream or paste type baits never used any of them until I got into soft swimbaits.  I fish in a lot of weeds all the time and read somewhere if you used MegaStrike on soft swimbaits it would allow them to go through the weeds easier and who ever wrote the article was right.  Have not seen where it has made any difference in open water as I have tried fishing two identical rigs one with and one without MegaStrike on it and there was little diffence in the number of strikes and/or how deep the fish was hooked.

Just my two cents for what it is worth....

[Buzbait88]

I use JJ's magic.  Its an oil based scent/dye and I think it makes all the difference.  it permeates the bait and the plastic actually absorbs the dye and scent making it last longer.  It gets me more bites and thats all that counts to me.

[-Shawn-]

Baron, the Megastrike will help with keepin smaller fish from tearing up your swimbaits as bad.  Really seems to let the bait slide instead of rip.

As far as attractant I think the same as jared.  bass don't feed by scent most of the time, but they do spit baits that have a foul taste and hold onto baits that have the right protiens. I really think those are the only advantages.

[bassincali]

does human scent include deoderant or colone. i wont let people in my truck if they are wearing colone at all... everyone thinks im weird but i spend to much of my time and money fishing to take the chance. i make my own scents it has to have a oil base or it comes off and doesnt stick to the bait. fish will hold the bait longer. make sure the scent is not to strong. a slight scent is all it takes. salt counts as a scent i dont scent up salted baits all the time only when it gets tough and you need that little extra something.

[ex301p]

I have no hard facts, just experiences. I have been using scents on and off ever since Fish Formula first came out 100 years ago and I can not say one way or the other if they actually ever helped as far as getting more strikes, however I can say with confidence that out of all the brands and formulas I have tried over the years, when using Megastrike or Edge Hot Sauce Gel the bass do hold on longer. Maybe its just a confidence thing, but my hookup ratio has gone way up when frog fishing when using either of these two products. My fishing partner laughs at me saying I am wasting it on frogs for frogs are site baits, to bad for him for I am usually the last one laughing because I hooked up more and missed less strikes then he did.

One time however in the hundred or so years that I have been fishing did I ever see a scent actually out produce as far as strikes go to the extent that everyone I was fishing with that day wanted to kill me to take the scent away from me. Long before the chap stick types you see today was another chap stick attractant. I can't recall the brand, all I remember is it came in a chap stick tube and the scent was called creek chub or just chub. It is no longer around, in fact it was not on the market long at all, but on one day, fishing with several family members and friends of whom at the time where much better fisherman then me, all using similar setups, give or take a lb or two in line pound test and the same plastic worms from the same 100 count worm bag, I caught 12 bass to every one they caught. We got into a school of bass and I just cleaned house while they struggled to get a strike.

I was never able to reproduce this, nor was I ever able to find another tube of the stuff, but on that one day the bass wanted that creek chub scent. Other then that one day though, as far as strikes go, I could not say whether scent. oil or water based, has anything to do with it or not, just that with some scents fish do hold on longer, in fact I would change the name from Attractant to Taste Stimulator if it was up to me.

[coldfront]

I have no hard facts, just experiences. I have been using scents on and off ever since Fish Formula first came out 100 years ago and I can not say one way or the other if they actually ever helped as far as getting more strikes, however I can say with confidence that out of all the brands and formulas I have tried over the years, when using Megastrike or Edge Hot Sauce Gel the bass do hold on longer. Maybe its just a confidence thing, but my hookup ratio has gone way up when frog fishing when using either of these two produces. My fishing partner laughs at me saying I am wasting it on frogs for frogs are site baits, to bad for him for I am usually the last one laughing because I hooked up more and missed less strikes then he did.

...in fact I would change the name from Attractant to Taste Stimulator if it was up to me...

excellent point...I know the guys out west fishing the big swimbaits doctor their baits with attractant...not so much for the 'taste' as for lubrication...they feel the bigger baits 'move' better in the fish jaws on the hook set...  perhaps something similar occurs with the frogs?

and you comment on 'taste stimulator' is excellent!     great insight!

[ex301p]

excellent point...I know the guys out west fishing the big swimbaits doctor their baits with attractant...not so much for the 'taste' as for lubrication...they feel the bigger baits 'move' better in the fish jaws on the hook set...  perhaps something similar occurs with the frogs?

and you comment on 'taste stimulator' is excellent!     great insight!

TY. Actually I never heard of Edge Hot Sauce Gel until a Cali Buddy of mine told me about it a couple years ago. Says he won't fish without it, but never really said why. All's I can say is the biggest Frog bass I have caught came on a frog with this added, Still no proof the sauce had anything to do with it as far as attracting the bass goes, but I do believe it helped as far as the bass holding on long enough for me to get a real good hookset in her or maybe your point of it allowed the frog to move just right in the fishes mouth to get that good hookset.

My thoughts really on it is that the Lure and presentation is the attractant that causes the bass to strike, but maybe it's the final stimuli of taste that makes that fish decide whether or not what it just struck is food or not. As far as water or oil based, I don;t even think the scientist behind these formulas even really know, just there best guesses from the data they have. Until Bass start talking I guess this debate will go on forever. 

[willthebad]

Personally I do not think that scent makes a huge difference...I normally skip "flavoring" baits that are salted and or already garlic scented.  If I use unscented plastics or jigs, even a swimbait, I will use the Megastrike like others have said here.  It lasts a very long time and seems to penetrate the plastic.  I can say that on "unflavored" (no anise oil, nothing) baits I have witnessed fish holding longer with the Megastrike vs. no scent at all. 

I think anise oil is a good tool to condition plastic baits and I think the smell at least helps mask any unnatural odors.

I will also use the garlic dye, but that is more of an aesthetic tool to me...

[Swede]

Good discussion - thanks for starting the topic Baron.  I use plastics that come already coated with anise oil.  My personal opinion is that scents make not one bit of difference in a fish biting or not biting.  I do believe the oil based products we all use create a more supple plastic that fish tend to hold onto longer because ..... maybe it just feels good or more importantly feels natural.  Will I ever figure bass out?  I doubt it, but I try to at least put things in my favor most of the time.  I've had a smoker on the back deck put a whooping on me while he huffed and puffed on his cigarette.  I've done the same to the fisherman in the back under similar circumstances when I used chewing tobacco.  I never washed my hands after messing with tobacco.  I've noticed no change in bite since quitting the tobacco habit.  I use oils because they make the bait feel good - not necessarily for scent.  If I'm out to lunch and bass really do like the scent because it smells good - more bang for my reasoning I guess.   

[Baron49]

Swede,

Interesting reply.  I am a non-smoker now and my fishing partner is a 2 to 3 pack a day fiend.  When fishing similar baits we have not seen any difference in the catch ratios.  There was only one time it did seem to make a difference and that was a partner tournament under really tough conditions.  I dropped down a a lighter jig with a pork trailer and he stayed with his plastic trailers.  First time he ever has been skunked in a tournament.  I caught 5 including a 6 lber after switching to the pork.  Did his smoking make a difference?  I doubt it as this was the only time we have experienced this, he is just stubborn when it comes to using pork frogs. 

So this brings in another consideration and that is the salt content in some baits.  Do they make a big difference?  I believe they do, Senkos have a lot of salt in them and of course the pork frogs are cured in brine and stored in brine when you buy them.  Salt is a major component in blood and I honestly believe a bass can taste the salt and hangs on a little longer to the baits.

Baron

[coldfront]

I too like salty snacks...



one of my favorite salty snacks is the Strike King 3.5 inch tube...and I've noticed that, if they last a couple fish, they get some 'holes' in the skin..from the salt crystals dissolving out?

I much prefer a salted plastic over one that's 'not'...wish they could make a salted trick worm that floated...

[Baron49]

I don't see that happening soon.  Salt is heavy and causes most baits to fall and not float.

[Mike Cork]

Great discussion 

Someone asked about gas and oil? I seen a study somewhere and for the life of  me don't remember where so take it for what it's worth as I don't have the reference. However, it suggested and proved (in their environment what ever that was) that gas and oil did not affect the bass at all suggesting for the same reasons as noted here already, petroleum based products can't mix with water.

To be honest I rarely use scents? Reason, what if the scent is a turn off? If the fish can't smell that the bait is made of petroleum (I.E. soft plastics) then why put something on it that could possibly be a turn off. I used to be religious about garlic scents as I believed they masked my smoking and the gas station.  However in the last 2 years I haven't used any products and it's working out pretty good for me to include my Personal Best fish which was caught on a brush hog, So  does it hurt or help or is it irrelevant?

I must also admit that most of my fishing is done reaction style to include my flipping. Of course spinnerbaits, frogs, and cranks are going to draw a reaction strike and you need to be confident that you'll detect that strike and react accordingly. My flipping is usually with heavy weights and again the bait is falling quickly so it's going to be mostly a reaction strike.

In today's soft plastic products, unless you go with a very off the wall brand, they all have some sort of scent on or in them. So if scents are a concern or yours then you'll have to pay attention to what your buying. Most products won't need additional scents and if you do put something on them then you are creating a new scent Garlic + Coffee = Garlee  and we can modify that and call it Narlee 

[Baron49]

Good points Mike and it brought to mind that I have read in more than one article that WD-40 is something that many guys are using on their plastics.   

I hit my hook box with a little spritz of WD-40 to keep the moisture from rusting my hooks and don't bother to wipe them off when using them. 

So many different things and so few fish to test them on....

[ex301p]

What Mike said reminds of something. Several Years back at yet another fishing expo this guy was pushing this stuff called Fish Force. I can't recall the pros name, no one big time, but he was showing in the big tank some worm techniques and bragging about how good this Fish Force stuff was, hows its all he uses and such. He threw a unscented worm in the tank a few times without a strike, the bass just where not interested, not spooked or anything, but not interested. He then added some Fish Force to his worm and tossed it into the tank. Every bass in the tank ran away from the worm to the other side of the tank. LOL

I actually thought about buying a bottle for my fishing partner. LOL

[bass1cpr]

   Mike I think the article you may be refering to was in a BASS Times. There was an article by Dr. Keith Jones on fish scents and the things they reacted to. He used Cotton Balls with differant scents and products on them and how the bass reacted to them holding on or rejecting them. There were a couple of surprises in the article gas and oil being two of them. I like you don't add extra scent to the baits I use Except for spike it to add chartreuse, red or orange. There have been times that adding Mega Strike or Smelly Jelly seemed to help on days that the bite was slow and that was the only change I had made but I do not automatically start by adding a scent product except the garlic from spike it. It does help a bait slide thru heavy cover (grass or weeds) better and I could agree that it acts as a lubricant in the fishes jaws. But I think we all will make our own conclusions which help our own confidence and that is the biggest factor in catching fish. Having COnfidence in our abilities.

[SkeeterMatt]

I've been throwing un-scented finesse worms lately on a dropshot with no scent and the bite was very light. i got some new senko type baits that have a very heavy garlic scent and the fish are trying to rip the rod out of my hands now. may be the scent or just a bigger presentation. i don't know. i've always believed scent will make the fish hold on longer.

[Mike Cork]

Bass1cpr you bring up a good point about scents lubricating baits. I have been known to use smelly jelly when punching thick hyacinths as it helps the bait get through the vegetation. And when I buy spike it I do always get the garlic version.