catfish eating bass?

[tmiller2]

do catfish eat bass....my uncle has a pond on his property and i used to fish it all the time and have great days catching 20+ bass in just a few hours.....then maybe 5 years ago or so he stocked it with channel cats and bluegill.....since that time the catfish population has gone way up the bluegills have skyrocketed and the bass have plummeted to almost nothing....i will go there now and catch maybe 1 or 2 in a few hours....so i was just wondering if the catfish have anything to do with the falling bass population?
oh and there used to be trout in there too but i haven't heard of anyone catching those in about 10 years

[Nick24]

cats usually just eat dead things on the bottom but the do eat minnows sometimes

[tmiller2]

cats usually just eat dead things on the bottom but the do eat minnows sometimes

then what do u think happened to the bass.....he had the O2 levels checked in the water and they were normal

[mikenestle]

cats usually just eat dead things on the bottom but the do eat minnows sometimes

This statement is untrue channel cats are predators. My guess would be they are having some effect but probably not the entire story. How big is the pond? Is there more plant growht than there was 5 years ago. If you get more plant growth they take up more oxygen.

[GoneFishn]

Could have a bass snatcher ....sneaking in after dark.in 5 years 3-4 ppl could suck a pond dry....or maybe he has a major turtle population?

[mikenestle]

Good points that could be it. The channel cats will eat some juvenile bass but that doesn't sound like the problem because why are the bluegills populating so much. I don't know how well bluegill would survive compared to bass with ph, o2 and the such maybe someone else can help us out there.

[tmiller2]

This statement is untrue channel cats are predators. My guess would be they are having some effect but probably not the entire story. How big is the pond? Is there more plant growht than there was 5 years ago. If you get more plant growth they take up more oxygen.

not that i can see...2 summers ago i even tried to restock it myself...i took bass out of one of the ponds that was full of them and moved them into my uncles i prob put in around 50 11-12 in bass in 3 weeks....the pond is prob 50-60yrd wide and around 90 long....but its man made and get to about 10 to 12 feet deep in the middle where there is a natural spring....and there is another one that leads into it on the other side along with a feeder stream....there are cattails in one corner and small trees and bushes and stuff along the edge but i cant really see any underwater vegitation....and its not chemically treated either.....the origional catfish are prob up to 8lbs +

[mikenestle]

Another question tmiller are there any frogs around the pond breeding in the spring etc? No frogs are a sign of nonhealthy water.

[tmiller2]

there is one little snapping turtle that i can find.....frogs all over the place mostly green frogs and bullfrogs but there are a few leopard frogs as well....and i dont know if it is a bass snatcher the house it about 15 feet from the water and they have 3 dogs and another friend who lives on the property has 2 dogs so ud figure they would bark a little bit....

[mikenestle]

Were the bass big that you used to catch? Did they seem to be stunted at all (Same size eyes bugging out anything like that)? I am wondering if it just a place without good banks to spawn and they died off with old age.

[tmiller2]

Were the bass big that you used to catch? Did they seem to be stunted at all (Same size eyes bugging out anything like that)? I am wondering if it just a place without good banks to spawn and they died off with old age.

they werent huge prob 13-15in around 1lb to 2lbs but there were a few mosters in there prob around 5-6 lbs, but there are shaded shallows under the bushes along 2 sides as well as  and in the shallows by a stone wall where a lot of the bluegill gather.....there are leeches in there too if that means anything

[mikenestle]

wow I have eliminated everything I can think of. Maybe the cats are putting a hurt on the bass population in a big way. But I can't figure out why the bluegills would be doing so well. Which eliminates turtles as well. I think it has something to do with the oxygen level in the pond. My guess is if channel cats and bluegill could survive higher ph levels than bass. adding them to the pond could have changed the ph level enough that the bass just can't survive. Do a little research on the web and see if you can find that kind of info. I am at work now and don't have time to research but see what you can find and let us know. If I have any other thoughts I will post.

[tmiller2]

wow I have eliminated everything I can think of. Maybe the cats are putting a hurt on the bass population in a big way. But I can't figure out why the bluegills would be doing so well. Which eliminates turtles as well. I think it has something to do with the oxygen level in the pond. My guess is if channel cats and bluegill could survive higher ph levels than bass. adding them to the pond could have changed the ph level enough that the bass just can't survive. Do a little research on the web and see if you can find that kind of info. I am at work now and don't have time to research but see what you can find and let us know. If I have any other thoughts I will post.

i think it has to do with that as well ...but my uncle is too lazy to do anything about it....but im def going to look into it when i get out of work and am done fishing for the night...ill keep everyone updated

[GoneFishn]

got this article from here.
http://ohioline.osu.edu/a-fact/0010.html#when


Yellow, Brown, or Black Bullhead
While channel catfish are acceptable in ponds, these closely related species are not. At high densities, they also cause a pond to become muddy. Their very high reproduction rate coupled with their predation on bass and bluegill eggs can quickly result in them overpopulating a pond.

and if its sm here:

Smallmouth Bass
Although closely related to the largemouth bass, smallmouth bass prefer habitats very different than their cousin. This is a species that does best in rivers, streams, and very large lakes with an abundance of rock, gravel, and sand. While smallmouth bass stocked in ponds may survive and provide the occasional novelty catch, they often grow slowly and do not reproduce. The exception to this would be the deeper, borrow pit ponds around Ohio where the bottom is largely sand and gravel. Smallmouth bass do fairly well in these systems.

If they dont reproduce would be alot of stocking huh!!

[mikenestle]

Hey I found a ph chart and it appears this is the smoking gun. A black bass can't live in a ph lower than 5.5 sunfish 4.2 channel catfish 4.5. I think you need to ph test it I bet the pond with all those big catfish Is probably about 5.0. Time for some selective harvest of cats and bluegills I imagine.

[tmiller2]

Hey I found a ph chart and it appears this is the smoking gun. A black bass can't live in a ph lower than 5.5 sunfish 4.2 channel catfish 4.5. I think you need to ph test it I bet the pond with all those big catfish Is probably about 5.0. Time for some selective harvest of cats and bluegills I imagine.

i have a feeling that that is what its going to be im going to have to buy a ph test and see what happens

[GotstaFish]

Sounds like he may have overpopulated the bluegill. Too many fish in to small of an area can ruin a good pond. Did he have someone survey the water and decide the correct amount of stocking before he put the cats and gills in there?

[Fish_myster]

Folks let me tell you my 2 cents too, 
I know for a fact that cats will eat the bass if they can catch em'.
I've seen folks use (illegally) bass for bait on a big float and slam the big cats. They are a very hungry preditor. They love them gills but will ambush ANY small fish swimming by.
PH could very well be the smoking gun but don't think them cats haven't ate some too!

[Big J]

problem #1:  The lake is over populated.  There are too many fish and not enough food to go around.

problem #2: The bass's eggs are getting eaten by the bluegill and catfish, hence less baby bass.

[mikenestle]

Folks let me tell you my 2 cents too, 
I know for a fact that cats will eat the bass if they can catch em'.
I've seen folks use (illegally) bass for bait on a big float and slam the big cats. They are a very hungry preditor. They love them gills but will ambush ANY small fish swimming by.
PH could very well be the smoking gun but don't think them cats haven't ate some too!

You are 100 percent correct Fish but the problem is the ponds bluegills are doing well. I can't believe they ate all the bass and are now leaving the bluegills alone.

[iminsanenutz]

wow i was just goin to start a similar topic. i found a little pond that is LOADED with bluegills and catfish. no bass

i was going to release a bunch of bass in their next year but i think im going to check the water levels first.

very interesting topics, let us know if ya test the water

[Fish_myster]

You are 100 percent correct Fish but the problem is the ponds bluegills are doing well. I can't believe they ate all the bass and are now leaving the bluegills alone.

agreed mike, seems likely about the PH. Should have a bluegill and catfish fry and invite the friends over.

[Big J]

I'll come.  I'll bring some carp for you to fry up to go along with the bluegill and catfish.

[Fish_myster]

what ever.....carp  to me they are catch an release...

[Big J]

Crap is delicious.  I mean carp.