Graphite for deep-cranking?

pantera61 · August 08, 2021, 10:02:38 AM

I've been using the Daiwa Tatula Signature Elite 7' glasstech for shallow, mid and deep cranks (deeper than 12'). Very satisfied with the the glass for shallow and mid-range performance but I'm starting to think about going back to graphite for deep cranks because of increased bite detection.
I think I would rather feel the strike and set the hook and worry about losing the fish during the fight than to not sink the hook on a strike. Part of the problem is my inexperience with deep water tactics. Is this something that will come with time?
Thanks!

Oldfart9999 · August 08, 2021, 01:05:05 PM

I use BPS Crankin Sticks for anything not a bottom technique, they are a composite blank, Graphite/Glass. Even with a good glass rod you'll feel the the strike, cranks tend be self hookers as they are moving as the fish hit them, it's not like fishing a jig or worm, just let the bait, line and rod do the work for you. A glass or composite rod have a parabolic action, softer so the rod doesn't rip the hooks out of the fish, it's also why many use a medium action over a medium heavy or heavy action, the medium also helps in getting longer casts.
Rodney

Wizard · August 08, 2021, 02:46:53 PM

Every model of deep crank dives and retrieves different from all others. So, having a universal cranking rod is difficult. The rod that feels best in your hand, regardless of material, is the one that you will use as a deep cranking rod. Let me give my view of deep crank baits and retrieves.
1) deep cranks retrieve on a shallow to deep to shallow curve where the deepest depth is sustained for only 3-5 feet of the retrieve. The shape of the retrieve requires the angler to plan where to cast so the deepest part of the dive intersects with the target area. ( you want to leave the bait in the feeding zone as long as possible)

2) to reach maximum depth, deep cranks must be retrieved slowly. The mathematics of every deep crank are determined by the geometry of the body shape, bill and materials along with placement of the line tie, hangers and hooks. ( if you burn a retrieve using a deep crank it will not reach maximum depth)

3) A few deep cranks have unusual retrieves. The Bagley Dredge dives almost straight down as soon as the reel handle is turned. The tail is straight up until it hits bottom. The lure stays on bottom until it starts it's return to the surface. ( good luck finding an ORIGINAL Bagley Dredge today)

4) as always, the diameter of the line will help determine the maximum depth of the crank.

Wizard

coldfront · August 08, 2021, 05:20:36 PM

Quote from: pantera61 on August 08, 2021, 10:02:38 AM
I've been using the Daiwa Tatula Signature Elite 7' glasstech for shallow, mid and deep cranks (deeper than 12'). Very satisfied with the the glass for shallow and mid-range performance but I'm starting to think about going back to graphite for deep cranks because of increased bite detection.
I think I would rather feel the strike and set the hook and worry about losing the fish during the fight than to not sink the hook on a strike. Part of the problem is my inexperience with deep water tactics. Is this something that will come with time?
Thanks!

yes to all that. sensitivity. worry about rod 'give' after the hooks are in.
soft hands can overcome graphite rods all day.

loomisguy · August 09, 2021, 05:02:37 AM

It's really a personal preference deal.. The glass rods today like the St.Croix legends are just better than what I started with 40 years ago. The hooks are better, line is better ect.
That said I fish mostly blended blanks for squarebills and medium divers like the wart RK crawlers ect
For deep divers like the DD22, 6XD and especially the10 XD I fish on a Loomis 904 swimbait rod. Casts a mile and when I get one hooked I start winching and don't stop till it's in the boat. Especially if your strolling, they are on a big hook coming from a long way away . Personally I see no reason to play the fish at all. Just like a big swimbait.
One last thing to remember is some of the baits of yesteryear like the DD22 will fight you all the way back to the boat. The 6XD, little John DD or Fat Free Shad don't pull nearly as hard . Personally I don't think a 8xd pulls as hard as the DD22.

pantera61 · August 09, 2021, 02:12:03 PM

Thanks to all for your replies, please keep them coming.

Dink Dawg · August 09, 2021, 06:50:45 PM

To obtain depth, you have to prepare to fish bigger baits. That's a given. Size increase results in both increased weight of the bait in most cases more resistance as the bills sizes increase.

With that said, it's easy to overpower a rod with baits well over an ounce. I had two choices when I focused on deep cranking, graphite or composite. All glass didn't factor for me. I went composite. I gained a slower reaction or rebound without any significant weight gain in the rod. My feel on a 40 to 50 yard cast is good to very good. I have length, 8 feet, power(5) and the delayed response I feel is an advantage. You can get all the benefits except the delayed reaction in an all graphite stick. Now it's personal preference. That's my view for what it's worth.

coldfront · August 10, 2021, 08:01:39 AM

Quote from: Dink Dawg on August 09, 2021, 06:50:45 PM
To obtain depth, you have to prepare to fish bigger baits. That's a given. Size increase results in both increased weight of the bait in most cases more resistance as the bills sizes increase.

With that said, it's easy to overpower a rod with baits well over an ounce. I had two choices when I focused on deep cranking, graphite or composite. All glass didn't factor for me. I went composite. I gained a slower reaction or rebound without any significant weight gain in the rod. My feel on a 40 to 50 yard cast is good to very good. I have length, 8 feet, power(5) and the delayed response I feel is an advantage. You can get all the benefits except the delayed reaction in an all graphite stick. Now it's personal preference. That's my view for what it's worth.

so Dink, 'cause I'm argumentative by nature and in a particularly 'ornery' mood this morning...

and this is not directed to you specifically; anyone can 'play'

here's the scenario: we spend all this money on the most sensitive rods we can get, the most sensitive lines we can get... so we can feel everything: every bite, every leaf, every strand of grass... even when those fish 'push' the bait and there's 'no feel'.
THEN we move to rods with softer actions so OUR response to the information is delayed.

Seems to me that a lot of anglers don't want to pay attention/think... they allow their adrenaline to rush their response, overcome the moment, the needed technique.

hook sets are a conditioned response. so is 'skiing' in a bass... or the root cause of 'boatflippin' a 10-pounder. Not the wisest of choices... but sometimes anglers have been known to have 'temporary insanity'.

and we wonder why those big fish so often 'break our hearts' and get away? most often I suspect it's a DEU problem. Defective End User.

but that gets this back to the point: the 'system' is a combination of Angler, Angler awareness AND rod, reel, line, lure ... hooks and of pretty high importance: knot (technique is key)