Boating accident oxygen-enriched fire on bass boats

[Jim Jackburn]

How in the world does a bass tournament fisherman extinguish an oxygen-enriched fire on his bass boat when using livewell oxygen equipment? Bass boat salesmen never have an answer for this simple question.
Oxygen-enrichment means >23% - 99.5% oxygen gas inside a livewell, bait tank, boat locker or a boat bilge. Air contains 21% oxygen gas.
Many bass fishermen are afraid of oxygen gas and have claimed that a pressurized livewell oxygen system on a boat is really dangerous. A pressurized oxygen tank and a SCUBA air tank on a both have 2200 psi gas pressure, both tanks have specific safety rules when transported on boats that are very different than livewell oxygenators.
But, what are the rules regarding pure oxygen gas and the oxygen-enrichment gas spaces where oxygen is in use?
I find that oxygen system fire safety on bass boats is a very negative topic when talking to any bass boat salesmen . The classic response I've heard is, "oxygen gas is as safe as air, air has plenty oxygen in it... don't worry, be happy, buy the O2 because it's really good for the bass, better than livewell supplements.
I've looked at several OEM bass boat O2 systems, bass boat oxygenators, oxygen tank rigs and other fishing oxygen systems that all claim capability of oxygen-enriched livewells and bait tanks. These salesmen will never mention boat fire safety when promoting their oxygen systems.

Just for fun.... What's your opinion? Are these bass boat O2 systems that insure oxygen-enrichment more or less dangerous than gasoline on bass boats?

[Oldfart9999]

I don't think the oxygenators are a problem, as far as where the tank is stored for a pressurized system it would depend on where the tank is stored. If the tank is stored and the lines aren't running through the bilge or gas tank areas it shouldn't be a problem but it would have to be very securely tied down so it doesn't become an unguided missile in an accident.
Rodney   

[Jim Jackburn]

I was looking at where those high pressure O2 tanks and O2 lines are located in Bass Cat boats. This looks like what you're talking about.

No disrespect old fart, but back to my original question now...  How in the world does a bass tournament fisherman extinguish an oxygen-enriched fire on his bass boat when using livewell oxygen equipment?

I did talk to a Bass Cat boat salesmen last week and ask this same question. He had no idea how to extinguish an oxygen-enriched fire on BCB, says, "don't be concerned, won't happen." Reminded me of  what you said about those Oxygenators that generate 100% oxygen gas and fires.

[Princeton_Man]

I did a little searching and found high pressure O2 tanks/systems on boats are regulated by the USCG and it seems that providing installation guidelines are followed, there is no problem. I don't know exactly how big the tanks that are used for livewell systems are but, with an average of 35-50 gallons of gasoline on board, I doubt the presence of a small oxygen tank will make a huge difference in fire suppression.


I do agree that in a fire it does present an added danger to firefighters and bystanders just as it does in cars, trucks, etc.


Are there any records of bassboats with compressed O2 cylinders being involved in accidents and/or fires?


USCG doesn't think it's a problem, I trust their judgement and if I thought I needed one and could afford such a system I'd have it.  If my rig were to have a fire that I couldn't extinguish with my on board extinguisher, I'd be in the water and swimming away from it anyway O2 tank or not.

[Jim Jackburn]

I did a little searching and found high pressure O2 tanks/systems on boats are regulated by the USCG and it seems that providing installation guidelines are followed, there is no problem.

I have looked but have not seen or found this USGG regulation nor their instruction guidelines you mention here. I would really like to see this, please send the USCG regulation and guidelines URLs for me. Thanks so much P-M.

[Princeton_Man]

I have looked but have not seen or found this USGG regulation nor their instruction guidelines you mention here. I would really like to see this, please send the USCG regulation and guidelines URLs for me. Thanks so much P-M.

http://oxyedge-chum.com/tips/uscg-dot-cylinder-regulations/

[Jim Jackburn]

P-M, That web page you posted is the most comprehensive I've ever seen to date, but even this does not provide an answer to my question: "How in the world does a bass tournament fisherman extinguish an oxygen-enriched fire on his bass boat when using livewell oxygen equipment?" it's about the gas, not the O2 tank.
I found this Air Products Safety Gram 33 on that same website: The hazards of oxygen and oxygen-enriched mixtures   
Old fart might find this Air Products publication controversial at best. If the Oxygenator really does generate 100% oxygen gas continuously, all day as advertised, the livewell will most likely be enriched with oxygen and this Air Products Safety Gram 33 does apply to these conditions regarding my question. The Safety Gram 33 makes no reference to any USCG regulations or instructions, but they do manufacture oxygen and have safety expertise.
And, I do understand that that the huge majority of tournament fishermen have never experienced a dead bass, the dead fish penalty and have never lost a tournament because of a dead fish. But that same majority of fishermen have never caught a sack of bass heavy enough to overcrowd their livewell either; they have absolutely no need for any kind of pure oxygen for their fish even if it was free. Air, a water pump and plenty ice is all they want and actually all their catch really needs all day.
I found a lot of good information on that site and will bookmark it for future reference.
Thanks for your time, help, finding and posting that web page reference for me P-M.

[Oldfart9999]

Use your fire extinguisher at the base of the firs and starve it of all air.
Rodney

[spetro]

§ 147.85Oxygen.
(a) Eighty five cubic meters (3000 standard cubic feet) or less of oxygen may be on board any vessel.
(b) More than 85 m3 (3000 standard cubic feet) of oxygen may be on board a vessel engaged in industrial operations, if it is stowed on deck or in a well ventilated space.

If you really want to zero in on the fineprint....click here
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Here's the poop on putting out a pressurized oxygen tank explosion/regulator fire.
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https://www.firerescue1.com/explosion/articles/6-steps-to-prevent-an-oxygen-tank-explosionregulator-fire-bszOGDm5bUyEvxNc/

[rich12]

Simple!  Just install a pull cable operated or solenoid operated Halon system.  Works just fine on airplanes.  Halon kills fire almost instantly.

[coldfront]

struggling to follow this.  if using an oxygenator, which creates O2 'on demand' my assumption by splitting water into O2 and hydrogen gas. 

if this would possibly be a fire hazard, wouldn't, theoretically, one be able to toss a match into their livewell and 'watch it burn'? 

thinking a couple of things: 
1. would need to be airtight and possibly create a build up of hydrogen with lid closed.  these systems are just not that airtight. 
2.  o2 won't burn by itself.  it will support/enhance combustion of combustible materials.

there would need to be a build of of something combustible in the livewell, enclosed space...

wouldn't there?

[Captsteve]

Simple!  Just install a pull cable operated or solenoid operated Halon system.  Works just fine on airplanes.  Halon kills fire almost instantly.

Be careful , kills humans instantly too

                                Any day fishing, is a good day.

[TNDiver]

As a scuba diver, we are more worried about the tank falling and knocking the valve and it becoming a projectile.  I have seen pictures of tanks that went through a vehicle window.  The other issue, is be careful of older tanks if some one is trying to sell one cheap.  Some of the older aluminum ones had alloy issues that caused tanks to explode.  Dive shops won't even fill them if they are before 1988.

https://www.undercurrent.org/UCnow/dive_magazine/2009/OldAluminumTank200903.html

As for fires, I have never heard of it being an issue, maybe because most of us don't go above 32%.

[Oldfart9999]

A better way of going would be the system that use power from a battery to manufacture 02, no worries about a guided missile, paying to have the tank refilled or tested and no carting a tank around in your truck or car. As far as putting out an 02 fire with this system, you're not generating enough 02 to worry about it, with the bottle system read the safety warnings.
Rodney