2019 Tracker PT 175 60 HP Taking On Water

[Thornback]

First off let me say -- I did return the boat to the dealer to have them check why the boat was taking on water. They kept it over a week and said they couldn't find anything. While setting on their property it rained on the boat, hot sun shone on it, the compartments sweated and one auto PFD inflated. I had a mess of mildew and wet gear when I towed the boat home. I'll not give the dealer a second chance. No need to just park it on their lot when I can be fishing.
Here's what I have found out -- I put about 10 gallons of water in the bilge with a garden hose. 24 hours later there were no leaks on the garage floor. I filled the live well and ran the circulating pump for one hour and there were no leaks to the bilge. I used a garden hose and forced water in the live well supply port and into the live well. There was no water leaking into the bilge. I plugged all the through-transom holes (there's 5; bilge drain hole, both livewell overflow holes, live well drain hole, live well supply hole) and took the boat to the lake. For 2 hours I ran the boat, fished some, but never exceeded 5 MPH. Back at the ramp with the boat trailered and on the incline I pulled the drain plug and the bilge was dry. The next day I was back at the lake but this time I got up on plane and drove the boat at 25 MPH several times, plus I fished some. 2 hours later when back on the ramp I pulled the drain plug and out came a gallon of water. So the boat only takes on water at a fast speed. I have checked all the seam welds (which are nicely painted over -- sealed) and they look great. The motor bolts are sealed and tight. I was careful not to have water splash over the transom when starting, running, and stopping the boat. I think I may have to live with this leak. I have asked several other boaters at a boat ramp to look the boat over and offer advice but nothing new was offered. Any one the Forum want to suggest something I overlooked or haven't tried? I'm not going to call Missouri because they will just tell me to take the boat back to the dealer.

[Bud Kennedy]

My thoughts are leaning towards the conditions while on plane.  Water exerts a huge pressure on the hull while underway.  While this pressure is being exerted the seams could be separating just a bit as a result of this pressure.  Once you throttle back and are not applying undue pressure the seam returns to it's normal condition and does not leak.  If you think about it aircraft have experienced the same problem and even sometimes in reverse.  Very fast jet powered aircraft actually experience swelling that actually prevent fuel leaks.  Just reminds me of the same scenario you are facing but in reverse.

I doubt that you will ever find this problem without removing the deck and inspecting the stringers.  Something has become unattached that is allowing the hull to separate ever so slightly while under pressure.

This is just my theory as a possible cause of the elusive problem.  Unless you can convince them to replace the boat you will likely have this problem forever.  I don't know if there is an external sealing method for this or not but I bet there is something inside that could be done but I sure has heck would not want to go through that kind of aggravation. 

I still wonder if your overall set up and trim condition my also be causing this problem.  What set up and prop configuration did you finally wind up with?

[Capt. BassinLou]

Was the drain plug screwed in tight every outing?
Did everyone look over every welded seam of the boat? Welds have been known to separate on Trackers.

[Princeton_Man]

Do you have a water pressure type speedo pickup? That line could be be leaking. If you have a pressurized line to the water pressure gauge, that's a possibility too.

[Thornback]

Thanks guys for your thoughtful replies to my perplexing problem. I'll try to answer your questions/suggestions
-- I will check out the speedo tube and the motor's water pressure tube. I have a water pressure gauge on the dash but not sure how it works. The speedo works off the pitot hole on the lower unit and is fairly accurate compared to the GPS in the fish finder. I would think if there was a leak in the speedo tube it would not be accurate. Actually the speedo indicates 2 MPH faster than the GPS. I may cover the pitot hole just to do a test.
-- The drain plug was screwed in very tight, every time. I never had a leaking problem on my 2005 Tracker so i think I have the correct touch for tightening a drain plug. I have been under the boat and checked every welded seam, plus as mentioned the seams are powder coated over, so they seem to be well sealed. Actually the entire hull is powder coated. I do see a thin scrape about a foot long on the keel. It is not a deep scratch but it scraped off the paint. Looks like it was run up on a concrete boat ramp. I'll cover it over with JB Weld.
-- It does seem the water pressure on the hull is where the leak is coming in at. I like the analogy to an aircraft. I will live with the problem before removing the deck, as you suggested. I don't fully understand what you mean by overall setup, trim, and prop configuration. The boat is 17.5", 60 HP 4-stroke, 5 mounting holes and mounted in the top hole. The decal on the lower unit shows 12X22 1.83:1. There is a tilt gauge on the dash and when I start out the boat comes up on plane quickly and as it gains speed I began to tilt the motor up by watching the gauge and looking aft at the motor spray. If i don't keep tilting the motor up I will get spray over the top of the transom. I have the starting out procedure of speed and tilt well perfected.
-- I have another idea for a test. When I tilt the middle seat forward on it's hinge there is a carpeted compartment below. At the bottom of the compartment is a one foot carpeted square aluminum plate with a screw in each corner. I removed that plate and it lets me see the bilge. That is the first sign I am leaking as the bilge starts getting damp and later there is about one inch of water. As a test I'll place a water filled balloon perpendicular to the keel in the bilge and watch to see which side of the balloon the water starts to build up. That will tell me if the leak is forward of the seats or behind the seats. I guess every little clue helps to pinpoint the leak.

[Burbarry]

Going to ask is this your first boat? If so I had thought my boat was taking on water. But come to find out it was when I came to a stop water would rush up the back by the engine and flow in. You will need to get used to just before a stop hit the throttle a little when coming off plane. I'm now getting a lot better and don't have that happen often anymore. Hope this is your issue and you can get back to enjoying fishing.


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[Thornback]

Thanks for your reply. This is my third boat. The last Tracker was the exact same rig. I always come to a gradual stop, or slow down, from fast speed. I make sure water doesn't come over the transom.

[Bud Kennedy]

Well, this is a real bugger of a problem.  I wonder if you drop the motor a bit what effect it would have on water over the transom.  Your statement about that got me to thinking this way.  Many other here with trackers usually report the motor being on the bottom hole.  I can't remember anyone reporting the motor in the top hole.

The set up I was referring to earlier is the measurement between the centerline of the prop and the pad surface of the boat.  There is a method to measure this and can be found online if you search prop to pad measurement.  Kinda sound like you may be just a bit high but would be interested to have this checked.  You also say you get on plane quickly.  This would indicate that the motor is not too high.  I am a bit conflicted with my thinking about this.  I certainly would check this out before even thinking about removing the decks.  That would be an awful thing to do to a new boat.  I know I would not want to do this and would be a very last resort type of action.

[Capt. BassinLou]

Quite the head scratcher Thorn. If/when you find the cause, please report it to us. In the mean time, good luck finding the leak.

[Thornback]

Thanks for the heads up on "set up".
Just to clarify -- the motor mount bolts are in the top hole of the motor mount thus the motor is as low as it will go. It can only be raised. With the boat level, the motor level, I held a yardstick against the keel and the motor. The A-V plate was about 1 inch lower than the keel. I understand this is a good indication the motor is at the right height for my hull design. The hull is aluminum with a slight V.
After I rig up my bilge dam and get back on the water I'll post back the results of that test. Looks like it will be about 5 days due to some nasty weather heading my way.
Thanks again to all who took an interest to my problem.

[Bud Kennedy]

Here is a depiction of the prop to pad measurement  FYI



The other thing is top or bottom hole.  From what you are describing your motor is on the setting that has your motor at its lowest point.  This is consistent with other reports of a common Tracker Set up.  Once you get an accurate prop to pad let us know what it is.

Be sure to level your boat on a hard surface, the motor must be trimmed to an angle 90 degrees from the level boat making it perpendicular.  Measure from the hard surface to the  pad and then measure from the hard surface to the centerline of the prop shaft.  The difference between these two measurements will be your prop to pad measurement.  In  most cases the prop centerline should be a few inches below your pad.  I don't know what is correct for your motor but conventional wisdom indicates that a measurement of 3- 1/2" is optimal but we should check on that to be sure.

Once all of this is known if is worth a continuing conversation about what performance you are seeing at WOT.  I also am curious what speed you are getting at what RPM and at what trim position.  A motor too low may plane quicker but not do well for speed and create more of a plowing deal instead of a clean plane.  Boat may also a bit more unstable at full throttle.  I am also curious if you are feeling any torque or pulling in your steering wheel.

[RushFan]

I have had the same mystery water problem in my 2008 175TXW.  What is the most maddening thing about the situation is that mine is intermittent.  I bought various sized plugs and closed every opening.  What I found is that when my livewell intake & drains are blocked off I never take on any water.  When inspecting the plumbing I found that several of the hose clamps worked loose.  I also found a tee that had been overtightened and caused the fitting to be out of round and had to be replaced.  Tracker in it's infinite wisdom does have a fitting that runs below the fuel cell and is inaccessible unless I remove the fuel cell.  Fabulous.  Any case I'm no longer taking on as much water but it is frustrating. Just something else to make part of the preventative maintenance list.

[Bud Kennedy]

Now that is some interesting stuff.  HMMMMMM.  Might just be the problem.

[Oldfart9999]

Thanks for your reply. This is my third boat. The last Tracker was the exact same rig. I always come to a gradual stop, or slow down, from fast speed. I make sure water doesn't come over the transom.

The boat may have different rigging which determines how it sits in the water which is why this boat takes on water when you stop and your other boat didn't. An idea that I from Prinetonman, as you're slowing down turn the boat also, it could be the difference.
Rodney

[coldfront]

Was the drain plug screwed in tight every outing?
Did everyone look over every welded seam of the boat? Welds have been known to separate on Trackers.

tough to do on the trailer.  a dealer'd really have to WANT to find what's going on here.  WELL, at least as much as they want to sell a new boat.

might have to take then out and have them go through exactly what you did, just WITH you.

how long have you had this boat?  is there a 100% satisfaction guarantee?  I'd assume there's a 'lifetime hull warranty'.

[Thornback]

You guys are the greatest at thinking about my problem and offering help. By following the graphic supplied by Bud . . . with the boat pad level to my garage floor and the motor cavitation plate level, the measurements are as follows: boat pad to garage floor = 18"; prop center line to garage floor = 12"; resulting in a prop to pad ratio of 6".
--I have not yet run the boat at WOT. Taking it easy on the new motor. My fastest speed so far per my GPS was 32 MPH and I think the RPM was at 5,000. The boat does come up on plane quickly and if i don't start tilting the motor up it will start plowing and spraying water over the transom. But I repeat -- I have mastered the technique of coming up on plane and tilting the motor up as I gain speed. I have learned to do this by the attitude and speed of the boat and watching my tilt gauge on the dash. It's like starting off in an automobile with a 3-speed tranny and you shift through the gears as you pick up speed. Actually makes for fun driving the boat.
--My next outing I will go WOT and take note of ground speed and motor RPM while experimenting with the motor tilt and watching my wake.
--The boat has a No Feedback Steering System which has a clutch mechanism that prevents engine torque in the steering wheel. Don't ask me how it works but it's supposed to eliminate the driver having to constantly rock the steering wheel back and forth. All I can tell you is it does work and I like it.
--I don't want to sound ungrateful but it seems the conversation has shifted from leaks to motor height. I assure each and all I'm not getting any water over the transom when starting out or stopping. And I'm satisfied with how quickly it comes up on plane and the speed. I rarely drive any of my boats over 20 MPH.
--As mentioned by Rush I still have this feeling the leak is somewhere in the plumbing. And most of the plumbing is unassailable. Great design!!! Thanks Tracker.
---I have owned the boat 2 months. I have thought about taking the dealer for a run. Probably only Walmart and Amazon offers a 100% satisfaction guarantee (I'm being sarcastic). As to a hull warranty there is a lifetime hull and decking warranty. But the hull may be sound and the plumbing leaking. First the source of the leak must be found. The dealer couldn't find a leak so now I'm doing my own testing by elimination.
---I'll post again after my next outing. Thanks guys.

[coldfront]

any way to test the plumbing using air/airpressure?  you know, like they do with houses?

[Bud Kennedy]

I tend to agree that a plumbing problem may be the culprit.  Your motor is a bit deep and it would not hurt to raise it up a bit (about 1 hole at a time) when you begin to want to get the most out of your boat and motor performance.  I was considering that the attitude of the hull as it comes on plane as a possible source of hull stress.  I don't believe that is the problem but you never know is guess. 

[Thornback]

I tend to agree that a plumbing problem may be the culprit.  Your motor is a bit deep and it would not hurt to raise it up a bit (about 1 hole at a time) when you begin to want to get the most out of your boat and motor performance.  I was considering that the attitude of the hull as it comes on plane as a possible source of hull stress.  I don't believe that is the problem but you never know is guess.

I agree the motor is a bit deep and I considered raising it a hole or 2 because of the plowing but then I solved the problem with the tilt. I'll run it as is. Heck I may  have to run it with the leak as is -- but I'll keep testing

[Thornback]

any way to test the plumbing using air/airpressure?  you know, like they do with houses?

Good idea, a good test would be a hydrostatic test. But, and a big but, it would require ripping up the decking and engineering fittings to connect to the plumbing.

[Terry G]

I had a problem with water getting through my splash well plumbing into the bilge.
Sealed the drain in the well plumbing and no water the last 15 years

[Thornback]

Terry G may have hit the nail on the head. After Terry's reply I went out and did a close inspection of my transom well. Right in the middle compartment is a plastic access plate about 10" in diameter (similar to a manhole cover in a street). The plate turns CC to unlock and CW to lock down. I thought it possible the water spraying into the transom well might be leaking past the plate and into the bilges. So this morning I made a wooden plug for the transom well drain hole, plugged up the hole, placed a paper napkin under the deck below the plate. I then started adding water with a garden hose. No leaks showed when the water was high enough to reach the plate seal. I kept adding water but still no leak. Then I decided to raise the water up to the level of the gas filler pipe support base. I then used a flashlight to look under the deck below that support base and saw water trickling down to the bilge. That has to be THE leak as all the clues match that leak. No water in the bilge when idling on the lake for several hours but water in the bilge in 30 minutes after running at 3/4 speed and water in the well each time I return home from a fishing trip. The drain hole for the well is about 3/4" up from the bottom so not all the water drains out. Looks like I'm getting more water in the transom well than I thought. I'll have to start looking aft more often to be sure I have the best motor trim. Could also be motor spray hitting the support base.
--I plan to drill out the 3 pop rivets holding the base, remove it, cover the underside with a marine sealant, then replace and re-rivet.
--Again thanks to all who volunteered your time, experience, and suggestions to help me in my frustration. I was disappointed that my 2019 Tracker was leaking. I was looking for a leak to rise up from the lake, not a leak to drain down from the deck.
--Maybe this post will help another boater to check his transom well when he has a leak.

[Burbarry]

Can you post a picture of where you think the leak is. I'm not able to visualize where you're talking about. Maybe my boat has the same issue as I swear I'm not allowing much water up the back when stopping. But I do have an older nitro boat and wondering if that's same issue with mine.


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[Thornback]

Here's a photo of the transom well with pointer indicating where water was leaking into the bilge.

[Bud Kennedy]

While I'll be a monkeys uncle.  Now we understand your issue.  Congratulations on figuring it out after getting Terry G's post.