Medical Marijuana, really?

[FD]

First of all I'm not interested in a political, legal, or moral debate about the use of pot. If you're against it, great, you're entitled to your opinion but keep it to yourself in this thread.

What I want to know is if anyone has firsthand knowledge of its effectiveness in dealing with chronic pain, and here's why...

I was at my doctor last Thursday for my blood pressure. My current meds were causing severe sweats and cramping so I stopped taking them about a 2 weeks before my visit. It turns out I'm able to control my BP reasonably well with my diet and exercise, which wasn't possible with the cramping side effects of the Losartan. My expectation was she would put me on a different BP med and send me on on my way, but she didn't. She is going to let me try to control it without meds for a little while and see how I do.

So we started discussing what causes my diastolic numbers to spike and the one I can't control mentally is the chronic pain from the 5 herniated discs between my shoulder blades.

For the last two years I've been on pain management meds so I can function reasonably well. To my surprise her biggest concern about my pain meds is the long term effects of ibuprofen. Then she says, "I think you should consider medical marijuana."  Wait, What?

Now my total exposure to pot consists of of few weeks back in college when I was chasing a young coed who partook and that one weekend at bike week week after my first divorce where I made numerous bad decisions...

Those who know me understand my significant OCD tendencies don't allow me to be out of control, and as I explained this to the Doc, she counters with there are strains that are low in THC-9 and high in CBD.

Apparently, THC gets you high and causes the munchies, which is undeniably effective for chemo patients and others who have have appetite issues.

CBD oil has shown in some studies to have significant impacts on inflammation, muscle spasms, and pain suppression.

This benefit, without the high from the THC, is what I'm looking for information on. After researching online all weekend and not being able to separate the real info from the crap, is why I've come to you. Please share any personal experiences and if you don't want to make your knowledge public, please PM me.

Thanks
FD


swim/bike/run....repeat

Sent from the end of the paved road.....

[SteelHorseCowboy]

Your doctor is right, the CBD isn't psychoactive, it won't get you stoned. You'd be looking for oils and salves with this compound, actually called "cannabidiol" (not cannabid oil) rather than something you'd smoke. So yes, you can use it and still be perfectly in control of yourself, no different than using Bengay or the Tiger Balm I use.

Some folks think the drops cure cancer and down syndrome, heals broken bones in seconds, gets rid of genital warts and herpes, makes you impervious to gaping head wounds and capable of shrugging off bullets.

I've used a CBD salve on my hands for arthritis. Worked wonders for sure. Didn't smell too bad either, unlike the Tiger Balm I use, kind of a mix between dirt and a subtle hint of crayons.
But it's expensive, and I haven't tried curing cancer or genital warts with it. Thankfully, I have neither one. It didn't seem to help stupidity though.

So it's understandable that you're having trouble separating the fact from the bull crap, I can't figure out where exactly the fantasy ends and reality begins either, but it DOES help with pain in the salve form I've used.

I do know I also love me some pot. Oh man, there's this strain out there called "Blue Dream"... talk about mellow. I was chill as hell for about 3 days after toking up with a buddy. Had a dude get in my face because my shopping cart was blocking the aisle at the grocery store the day after we blazed up, and I was like "I love you man... lemme move that." Normally his comments and attitude would have had me ready to take a swing and struggling to stop myself.
But I was still in control with that stuff. Ate a ton of cold pizza though.

Several reasons I don't smoke pot but maybe once every couple years.
1. I don't think it's legal in my state, but it's been up for debate several times in our state legislature.
2. Wouldn't matter to me if it were legal or not (which is why I don't bother looking it up), too many employers have stipulations against it even in states where it's legal. Just like workplace rules against drinking on the job.
3. Damn, it's gotten expensive. I remember when a single nice bud only cost $10.

4. This one is a big one for me. I've seen your profile and noticed you follow at least one gun forum so this may be a big one for you too.
Under federal law, you're not legally eligible to own a firearm if you use marijuana, even if it's prescribed for medicinal usage in a state where it's legalized, because it's Federally regulated.

That last one's not always very strictly enforced.
But if you have to fill out the 4473 to purchase a new gun and answer "no" to the illicit substances question, that's perjury. If you answer "yes", then you're supposed to be denied.

But, CBD (the oils and salves), DON'T fall into the same legal category. They're not federally regulated, so the point is moot, and you wouldn't have to admit "I use medical marijuana".
In some states, salves and oils with a higher concentration than 0.3% are forbidden, but 0.3% and lower are legal in all 50 states. The stuff I used was, I believe, 0.25%.

Here's an article that has some decent info on CBD vs THC, but do notice the list of diseases they claim it cures and consider it's "pro-pot" stance. It's obviously biased, but still has some info.

https://www.marijuanabreak.com/best-cbd-oils-for-arthritis

I don't remember the brand of salve I was using and can't find it on google. I think I still have the little jar though, and I'll see if I can find it when I get home.
It may be difficult for you to treat 5 herniated discs with it though, that's a pretty serious injury, and do you have someone to rub it on for you?
The oil drops will allegedly help too, but I'd imagine applying the salve directly to the site would work better. After all, those drops are for curing cancer. And genital warts, herpes, and down syndrome.

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[FD]

I did not even consider the gun angle. I was more concerned about drug screens. I own the company but the IRS requires me to pay myself a "fair wage" which I do by leasing my services as CEO through the same employee leasing company I use for my employees. If I was involved in a job site accident then I am subject to the same post incident workers comp drug screen as everyone else.

Secondly, I'm technically driving a commercial vehicle all the time and my CDL could be in jeopardy.


swim/bike/run....repeat

Sent from the end of the paved road.....

[SteelHorseCowboy]

I was using the salve the last time I took a drug screen and asked the doctor administering it if it'd give a positive.
Short and simple answer, "No."
She explained that because CBD and THC are entirely different chemical compounds, it just doesn't show up when testing for THC.
BUT, that was about 5 years ago. Drug screens get more advanced just like so many other things.

If your doctor who recommended this stuff to you does drug tests, explain your concerns and just ask her, there should be no problem with her giving you the truth.

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[Deadeye]

FD I hear ya and the same reason I'm considering it myself.

Here is what I know:

CBD Oils and THC are totally different animals.

Pot today has become highly specialized in that a certain strain will help with Back Pain but not help with something else, say Anxiety. But another strain will help with Anxiety but not whatever. It truly has become a Wonder Drug with many uses.

On the Oils, My Daughter works for a Vet that was in a terrible car accident. The result was a severe swelling of her brain. She went everywhere for relief including Shans and Mayo. Nothing anyone did helped and they told her basically to get ready to die.

She did her own research and started using a type of the CBD Oil and guess what? It worked. The swelling left and she is still alive and well years later.  Now she believes so much in it that she prescribes it for certain animals that have issues.

My wife and I's little dog went into a seizure one night, have no idea why. She does cry when it rains a lot and she has to use her front legs, so I believe she has arthritis bad in the front shoulders. Anyway my wife took her to this Vet and after examining her she gave us CBD Oils to give her 2 drop each morning and night. She has not had a seizure since and had quit all the crying.

We cut her down to 2 drops a day at night and she was doing well until this year's rainy season hit. Back to crying again. I mean screaming like someone was trying to kill her. Started her back on the drops twice a day again last week and already I see improvement.

There has to be something to it.

They have different oils for different things as well, Pain, Anxiety, appetite, etc.

I'm glad Florida approved and passed the Medical MJ Act. I am starting to see Dispensaries starting up around here. Honestly I'm ready to give it a try. Been on the Meds for pain since 2012-2013 and they are not helping as much anymore. I live in pain in my hips or low back every day. I just keep going in spite of it.

If taking an Oil or heck even smoking some would help me have a day or two a week without pain, I'd do it. 

[Wizard]

My doctor's have all said that medical maryjane is the best treatment for me. Unfortunately, it is
against the law in the state of Misery (Missouri)

Wizard

[LgMouthGambler]

Do it, you wont be disappointed. It does wonders for my back pain, however mines not by Rx. 

[Polaris425]

As a Christian, I've heard many opinions on the matter from both sides of the fence.

I've even thought long on the matter myself at times. What if I was put in a position that this was the best option for whatever scenario I found myself in. What would I do?

There are people who misconstrue scripture and say that it's ok to smoke pot and get high just to get high because: 29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it.

But then the quit reading the next verst: "They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

Pot isnt food.... So there goes that argument. But back to the original verse. "I give you ever seed-bearing plant". So is the cannabis plant a seed bearing plant? It is right?  Then that means we can use it right?

I think so. When used in the correct way, as mentioned above. Extracting the CBD oils and using them for the purpose they are meant for. Nothing wrong with it. Abusing it to get high? Absolutely, No Bueno.

Others might disagree on this point, but then they go pound a few cheeseburgers, clog an artery, and well... What's the difference? I say none. God gave us cows, cheesburgers are great, when you eat a few here and there. Go eat one every day for a few years and see where that gets you...

My point here, anything that's good can be bad if abused or not used the way it was meant to be used.
Cheesburgers, wine, pocket knives.

Anyway, that's how I see it. I know you asked for first hand experience, and while I have none when it comes to personal use, and my opinion on the matter has mostly been based on my view of the subject, again something you asked to keep to ourselves, I wanted to weigh in anyway.

I'll say this last thing and I'll be done. My cousin had a brain tumor. Inoperable. They hit her hard with Chemo, and said that was all they could do. The area is was located affect her memory, along with a lot of other things.

One problem was suffering from severe anxiety and stress. They tried numerous anxiety meds and none of them worked. Yet they just kept pumping her full of them and trying different ones, different doses, again, none of them really worked. And some had serious side affects that were worse than the anxiety. She started smoking pot. Again, I do no condone this method, seeing as how she was buying it and smoking it illegally. But seeing her after a small dose, was like night and day. She looked, normal. Acted, normal. Acted like the person She was before the tumor. She was calm, cognitive, relaxed, and was the person I remembered. Not the one I had come to recently know.

It was at this point I decided to do research and think more on the subject, instead of just taking the ALL POT IS BAD point of view that I had always been lead to. I could discuss the matter much more in depth but, again, what I had to say didn't really fall in line with what you asked. I just wanted to weigh in an opinion from my POV.

[Oldfart9999]

They know what the various chemicals will do, which help certain issues so why don't they just extract them or synthesize them and be done with it?
Rodney

[SteelHorseCowboy]

Hey FD, here's another thing...
I don't think CBD is covered by health insurance in most cases, as I mentioned, some of it can be pricey, and you're worried.

You said you kind of expected her to change your meds up a bit? I take lisinopril for my BP. If your pain meds are working out for you and you haven't tried that BP med, that's an option you could mention to her. It works great for me.

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[basss]

Try it and see if it helps ... if it doesn't, it's a moot point.

[Deadeye]

Well when it comes to First Hand Knowledge, I can give that too. Not something I read in a book or had someone tell me was the right way to think, or even preached at me.

Back in my much younger days I smoked pot every day, yes every day. I worked full time jobs, I owned part of a Business, I lived just like everyone else did. Only difference was I smoked Pot every night.

I did it part out of rebellion towards my parents and "the man" at first, but mostly I did it because I enjoyed it and the feeling of it washing over me on those first hits of the day really relaxed me and helped me to think out some real issues.

I never did smoke while working any job that could get me hurt,but  did smoke it before, during , and after work fresh out of high school while working at a retail store. BUT what I smoked then VS what is on the market now is not even close to the same thing.

Back then it was just whatever we could get our hands on. Now like I said earlier it is Specialized to produce the effect your looking for.

They have an Energising High.

They have a Laid Back and Relaxed High.

They have a "your face in melting off" high.

The have a high that allows you to concentrate deeply on a subject to try and figure out a problem.

They have a "I just want to get a good night's sleep" high.

They have a "I just want to be pain free for a while" high.

They have just about everything you can imagine type of high, Mind-Body-Soul.

Believe me when I say there are people in high places of profession that smoke every day. Would you rather your surgeon is hungover from a drunk last night or smoked some pot to relax so he/she could sleep? I know which one I'd choose.

I asked my Back/Neck Surgeon specifically about using it and he said he thought in my case it would be a real benefit to me.

I haven't seen a Medical MJ Dr yet, but I'm leaning more and more towards it. I've been waiting for Florida to get the kinks worked out of the mess they made when it was approved by the voters.


Oh and the Main Reason I quit smoking way back then? It was illegal. I had got married and was raising two small children. I couldn't afford to get stopped for something and lose my job or spend prison time.

I quit for the Best for My Family.

My Family is all grown now. I no longer work, I've tried and the pain gets to much. If it would help me I'm interested in learning more.

[Wizard]

When you outlaw something, a lot of people get jobs testing and enforcing the law. Just saying----there maybe some self interest among enforcement personnel.

Wizard

[D.W. Verts]

I've never done it. I just LOOK like I do it...

There's just so much positive research. I know many folks who swear it helps them. And have you ever heard the REAL reason that Mary Jane was made illegal (Reefer Madness)? It's an interesting and politically motivated story.

I never could get my head around the fact that Whiskey's legal and pot ain't. It's all in how you use (abuse) it, but Whiskey is a real killer.

[SteelHorseCowboy]

I've never done it. I just LOOK like I do it...

There's just so much positive research. I know many folks who swear it helps them. And have you ever heard the REAL reason that Mary Jane was made illegal (Reefer Madness)? It's an interesting and politically motivated story.

I never could get my head around the fact that Whiskey's legal and pot ain't. It's all in how you use (abuse) it, but Whiskey is a real killer.

I told someone once,

What's better? A dad coming home drunk as hell and beating everyone in the house?
Or dad already being home, ordering a dozen pizzas, and laughing at all your jokes?

I was lucky, my old man wasn't abusive. He'd get drunk and just not come home. But when he was home and stoned? We had a blast!

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[topdsm0138]

I HATE the smell of it or smoke, but I have tried a few drops of the oil for my back, at the Dr's office. Yes, it does work. BUT they all rape you royally on it's price. 80-100 bucks for a little bottle as small as a little sample size bottle of reel oil. No way in HELL am I that retarded to spend that much on that little. Hell, for that price, it better be laced with something that allows me to see and talk with unicorns. Lol

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[SteelHorseCowboy]

I HATE the smell of it or smoke, but I have tried a few drops of the oil for my back, at the Dr's office. Yes, it does work. BUT they all rape you royally on it's price. 80-100 bucks for a little bottle as small as a little sample size bottle of reel oil. No way in HELL am I that retarded to spend that much on that little. Hell, for that price, it better be laced with something that allows me to see and talk with unicorns. Lol

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Here's an idea...
Get a scrip for weed... legal weed is cheap(er) at a dispensary...
Then sell it on the street to raise the funds for the oils!

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[topdsm0138]

It's also illegal for me to use, even for medical. I'm a federal employee.

Here's an idea...
Get a scrip for weed... legal weed is cheap(er) at a dispensary...
Then sell it on the street to raise the funds for the oils!

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[TNDiver]

I don't doubt the medical benefits of it, but my concern are drug interactions.  They can say what they want, but they don't know all the possible drug interactions, and that is what can cause problems.  Being topical oil, it would lower that risk, but could still have effects, depending on what they interact with. If cost is a concern for the treatment of pain, I wonder if there are other alternatives like Capsaicin creams or something similar.  Other alternatives that insurance might cover could be chiropractic, acupuncture, etc,   Just some other alternatives.  I will save my pot stories for another time 

[Fun4me]

For those that don't think hemp/mj is a food?

http://www.purehealingfoods.com/hempHeartsAnalysis.php

[SteelHorseCowboy]

It's also illegal for me to use, even for medical. I'm a federal employee.
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I thought you medically retired?

I don't doubt the medical benefits of it, but my concern are drug interactions.  They can say what they want, but they don't know all the possible drug interactions, and that is what can cause problems.  Being topical oil, it would lower that risk, but could still have effects, depending on what they interact with. If cost is a concern for the treatment of pain, I wonder if there are other alternatives like Capsaicin creams or something similar.  Other alternatives that insurance might cover could be chiropractic, acupuncture, etc,   Just some other alternatives.  I will save my pot stories for another time 

Although it's impossible to know all the possible drug interactions of any drug, here are two facts about the devil's lettuce.

1. There has never, ever, been a fatal marijuana overdose in the US. That's not coming from sources like "High Times" either, that's from the CDC and DEA.
The cases of THC overdose I've heard of from other countries, I haven't found a single one that seems to be more than circumstantial speculation.

2. There have been no deaths known to be caused by interactions with other drugs in the US, and the cases I've found from other countries have the same caveat as above.

That second one means a lot. Out of approximately 37 million people who are willing to admit to using pot, no one's been surprised by a sudden drug interaction death.

I'd trust weed far more than any chemical cooked up in a lab, even the ones I already take and trust.

The only deaths known to be a result of marijuana use, are incidental to it's use. Such as people driving while impaired, having falls, other accidents and such like that. The same circumstances that could apply to any other drug under the sun, including something as common as caffeine or aspirin. Both of which, incidentally, have caused overdose and drug interaction deaths on their own. And we shouldn't forget those who're killed in bad drug deals while trying to score some pot in shady neighborhoods.

But I do agree, I think the oils are mose likely far safer. They won't impair the judgement and reflexes of the person using them, UNLESS someone does suddenly have a surprise interaction.

[topdsm0138]

I thought you medically retired?Although it's impossible to know all the possible drug interactions of any drug, here are two facts about the devil's lettuce.

1. There has never, ever, been a fatal marijuana overdose in the US. That's not coming from sources like "High Times" either, that's from the CDC and DEA.
The cases of THC overdose I've heard of from other countries, I haven't found a single one that seems to be more than circumstantial speculation.

2. There have been no deaths known to be caused by interactions with other drugs in the US, and the cases I've found from other countries have the same caveat as above.

That second one means a lot. Out of approximately 37 million people who are willing to admit to using pot, no one's been surprised by a sudden drug interaction death.

I'd trust weed far more than any chemical cooked up in a lab, even the ones I already take and trust.

The only deaths known to be a result of marijuana use, are incidental to it's use. Such as people driving while impaired, having falls, other accidents and such like that. The same circumstances that could apply to any other drug under the sun, including something as common as caffeine or aspirin. Both of which, incidentally, have caused overdose and drug interaction deaths on their own. And we shouldn't forget those who're killed in bad drug deals while trying to score some pot in shady neighborhoods.

But I do agree, I think the oils are mose likely far safer. They won't impair the judgement and reflexes of the person using them, UNLESS someone does suddenly have a surprise interaction.

Nope, they put me on a permanent profile to retain me here. Now they want me to re-enlist for a few more years.

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[Smalls]

When I blew out my AC joint in my shoulder, a couple small hits seemed to be the only way I could get some sleep. I'd wake up multiple times a night from the pain.

[coldbasser]

Canada is making recreational marijuana legal.
People who drive high cause accidents & all the following conditions from those accidents. It's a big deal & even more so if it's your loved ones affected by dope.
Alcohol is a legalized drug that kills countless people. The medical use of marijuana is in my mind a good thing. There are many ways to apply the derivatives from marijuana.
Any drug when abused is a problem
The last people to ask about how big a problem it real is the ones who insist on getting high.
Just my humble opinion
Rick

[SteelHorseCowboy]

Any drug when abused is a problem.

^^^^ this, right there, you nailed it man.

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