Straight Or Crooked???

[FloridaFishinFool]

I would like to open up some discussion on the issue of whether or not a lure should run straight and true or, if a lure can run crooked and still catch fish???

What say you???

I'll save my opinion for a follow up comment and just open the door on this subject for now...

[Mike Cork]

I marked both. At times I want a lure to retrieve in a straight line, at times I'd like it to run left or right. When fishing cover I can use a lure that tracks to one side to help me deflect the bait off the cover. Especially buzz baits and crank baits.

[Smallie_Stalker]

Yeah, I had to check the doesn't matter box too. Same basic reasons as Mike. It does matter to me though. I like to be the one that decides whether they get to run straight or crooked.

Having said that though, there were some baits, like the old Norman Tennessee Killer that just didn't seem to run true no matter what you did to try and fix it. Funny thing is, it still caught fish. LOTS of fish.

This may be one of those subjects where it is more important to the fisherman than the fish. Should be interesting to see how this discussion plays out.

[Oldfart9999]

I would have to mark the same as Mike if I could, same reason. But it must be an adjustment I make, not something random out of the box. When running the length of a dock you might want to hit each post on the retrieve looking for a reaction strike.
Rodney

[jakebrake]

I went option 3...the retrieve is different for different circumstances.

[zippyduck]

I like to bounce everything off of wood and rock, that gives me enough action. Only reason for one to run off to the side would be for docks.

[LgMouthGambler]

This is a hard subject to answer. To me it really depends on the lure. If you rig a lure depending on what it is, and you rig it wrong, it may not work the way it should. That could cause major issues in the way it is supposed to work.

[FloridaFishinFool]

Right now as of this comment, the polling results are 4 votes for "It does not matter" and 2 votes for straight.

And with this comment I do not want to offend, demean, or anger in any way those voted for straight. So let me just say for the record I am of the opinion that "it does not matter" and I'll explain why I have this opinion today.

Let me start by bringing up one of the world's greatest pro bass fishermen Kevin Van Dam. I single him out because in his videos that he produces, he is teaching the world how he fishes, his techniques, and a lot of the things he wants all of us to learn and emulate to some degree.

And over the years one thing KVD keeps harping on in his videos is how to tune up a lure to run straight. For some reason this is important to him.

The implied unsaid issue is that when he does this he is communicating to all of us that a lure running straight and true is the best way, and that some how it catches more fish while a lure not running straight and true is some how inferior and not going to catch more fish.

I would like to just come out and say it... there is not one shred of proof or evidence that straight running lures are better catchers of fish. Pure BS.

And to find the truth of this simply look into Nature. How many baitfish swim in a straight line? Ever watch fish in an aquarium swim around? How many of them go back and forth swimming in perfect straight lines???

So the truth is Nature shows all of us that the food- the baitfish and other living critters they eat- for the fish we want to catch almost never swims in straight lines. They are all over the place in the real world. Quickly changing direction and I have to wonder if this quick direction change is a trigger for bass to strike? While a straight running lure may not trigger as bass as effectively???

So when we tie on lures why in the world would any of us expect every lure in our tackle boxes to run in straight lines??? Where in the hell did this nonsense ever come from???

Look, I can understand why some people would want lures running in straight true fashion is to control where it goes better around docks and other structures. That to me is a reasonable reason as to why some fishermen would want to control a lure's movement direction. But the truth is we can also control to some degree the path of lures that do "swim" crooked but it is more difficult to gauge direction control if they do not run straight.

Just two days ago the truth of this thread's purpose was put to the test on a small pond here in Jacksonville Florida when I went out fishing with a local buddy of mine here. He showed up with one rod and reel and his choice of a lure was a top water torpedo type of lure with those little propellers on it. I said nothing to him about it, but I knew it would not be a great producer for him since we were dealing with crystal clear water and absolutely no cover on the top of the water.

The only discussion we had about lure choice was I mentioned to him I did not want the bass to get a good look at my lure in these crystal clear conditions. With his slow moving top water lure the bass could slowly swim right up to it and examine it giving them time to figure out if they wanted to try and eat it or not.

I did not give those bass that opportunity. I chose a small swimbait on a 7 foot medium spinning rod, a 2000 size shimano reel with 6 pound braid on it. I knew there was absolutely nothing in this pond the fish could get tangled up in that would compel me to use a higher test line as a 4000 size reel with 10 or 12 pound test would have balanced out the rig better, but I chose to stay on the light side.

For 3 hours of bank fishing my buddy had I think two strikes and misses and caught two bass for his efforts. Meanwhile he was watching me and my boys absolutely tear those bass up driving them crazy with a lure that did everything but swim straight and true. I moved it fast, slow, on the surface, just below the surface, stopping the retrieve, letting it sink, jerking it back up, making it swim left and then right and just all over the place.

The bass were going nuts over it. I caught more than 12 bass in the same 3 hours and missed just as many due to short strikes or just not getting a hook into the bass. So I decided to add a stinger treble hook to increase my hookup chances. And I switched knots from a palomar to a rapala loose loop knot just so I could get even more erratic behavior out of the lure.

Two men, one rod and reel each, same pond, and the results were night and day different. I can only conclude that lure choice as well as technique is what makes this drastic of a difference. It is not luck in my opinion. I was simply doing a better job at fooling those bass than my buddy was. But you see, he was doing what he enjoyed doing even if it meant catching fewer fish. Sometimes I do the same thing.

But my point to this thread and this comment is that insisting on a straight running lure is just pure BS and I get a kick out of hearing KVD or any professional bass fishermen when they go on camera saying such nonsense. That is one bit of professional advice I will not be following. I want my lures to be as erratic as real baitfish are because it darn sure catches fish!

I am going to now vote with 2/3's of the voting members here for "It does not matter" because those bass really do not care either! Or do they???

Here is an image of the lure setup I finally settled on that just tore them up:

[loomisguy]

 A bait that wobbles or hunts like a wiggle wart or a squarebill still needs to run straight back to the rod tip vs laying over on its side.
That's why you adjust the line tie. But that doesn't change the hunt or wobble.

[Oldfart9999]

You say KVD is wrong, I question that. Notice, when he adjusts a bait to run "true" he then imparts random action with his rod. If a crankbait runs true it achieves maximum depth, a good thing, that can mean it hits bottom then deflects off cover, a random action which he tries to achieve. Get his videos on spinnerbaits, they are some of the best instruction on using them you'll find anywhere. He sets them up to run true then, using jerks and pauses gives them action, same with jerk baits. Squarebills are the best defecting baits going when they hit rocks and wood. Cranks that catch fish "hunt" they are adjusted to run true but something in a particular bait makes it kick out every few feet causing an action that causes fish to hit it. The only time to set a bait up to run to one side or the other is to run a line of posts, trees or wall and to deflect off them. IMHO.
Rodney 

[FloridaFishinFool]

You say KVD is wrong, I question that>

Rodney I am not saying he is wrong. I am saying it is not proven to me to be necessary. If he wants to do that it is fine and he has made great success with it.

My point is that erratic for me catches more fish. I have not pulled out a pair of pliers in years to straighten any lures. I don't need to. And it has not affected my fish catch count - that I know of.

Something else to consider with KVD that is different from me is that he is a man who actually endorses lures, and even tells corporations what he wants made and how he wants them made. So for him, maybe this designer corporate connection is rearing its head in his videos when he gets into his diatribe about making a lure run true.

I am not able to tell if I am actually listening to the fisherman KVD or the corporate sponsor and lure designer KVD when he gets into this subject in his videos.

Because of him I use to bother with it. But since the 1980's and even 1990's when I was absorbing ever word KVD, Rick Clunn, and Denny Brauer and other pro's were saying, I have since dropped quite a bit of it and just don't bother with it, but KVD does still harp on it.

He is not wrong in what he says. Straight running lures do catch fish. So does lures running crooked and more erratic. I simply choose the crooked and erratic over the straight is all. It all works. Just personal preference.

[FloridaFishinFool]

Must of clicked send twice. Wish we could delete posts!

[steve76]

 I would assume its a confidence thing. I personally want my baits running straight. KVD puts so much erratic action into his baits with his rod and retrieve that I imagine he wants to know his baits are running true in order to have the confidence to use his retrieval techniques.

[loomisguy]

What he says isn't only true for strike king baits so I doubt it's a sponsor thing. I've noticed on the Spro RK crawlers that once they get hung up a few times they can get bent out of tune. The line tie must be fairly soft on them because I can straighten them back with a fingernail.

[zippyduck]

another reason for a bait to run true is depth control. A bait that runs off kilter will run a lot shallower.
Snags are another reason for true running lures. Try running a squarebill through brush that is not running true.
Wiggle warts and like baits that hunt will flip in the water and twist your line.

I troll for walleye on big waters and 1 lure not running true has cost me 1000's of feet of line and lots of time fishing.
every lure that was no running true never caught a fish. My most important piece of equipment when trolling is my lure tuner.

[coldbasser]

For myself I've had lures that were of kilter spin out and pop to the surface, it takes a few seconds to tune in so I take the time and tune it up.
Cheers

[analfisherman]

Well, the reasons have pretty much been covered......I took three!

The deeper I fish the truer I want my crank to run......for reasons mentioned.
I LOVE lures that 'hunt'......but I fish short waters 90% of the time. (Short meaning 10 feet or less deep)

Do bait fish swim straight......NOPE.

Do I 'tune' a lure.......yep.......I want to be the one who chooses direction of swim.
But I don't 'tune' out of the box......I WAIT till the fish tell me I should be tweaking something.

I'm a KVD type of angler there is so much action implied on my part you would swear I suffered  with  Essential Tremor Condition........I just have an extreme challenge simply cast and reel on ANY BAIT I USE.

Good thread/question FFF! 

[FATFLATTIE]

I'm sorry but to call anything KVD says "pure BS" is ridiculous. He doesn't just say stuff to say it. The man is out to catch as many fish as possible. And I have quite often witnessed many fish and prey items swimming in a straight line, happens literally all the time. Why do big swimbaits reeled slowly in a straight line catch soooo many big fish? I am mostly a plastics guy and I feel like it is of utmost importance to have the bait rigged straight so it doesn't spin or twist on the fall. Cranks do need to be turned to run straight to achieve their best success but the main component of them is deflection. All lipped baits need to be turned properly to get them to function properly and I definitely will take the advise of the best hard bait fisherman on planet earth when it comes to tuning them and keeping them running true. There are just to many lures that work in straight line fashion to say it doesn't matter, but that's just my opinion. Some can be adjusted to achieve a desired result like a Buzz bait that you want to go a certain direction to deflect off of cover or go under overhanging branches. I just feel like a properly rigged/tuned bait is going to lead to more success.

[Oldfart9999]

There is a difference between "hunting" and being out of tune. If a bait is out of tune, it's out of tune. But if a bait is in tune and kicks out every so often it hunts, a good thing, and what good warts do Most tu8ned cranks will hunt to one degree or another, it's a matter the action of the hunting a bait does. EWe all have that "special" bait that is THE bass catcher in our box and I'll bet it runs true but kicks right or left or both while being retrieved.
Rodney

[FloridaFishinFool]

I'm sorry but to call anything KVD says "pure BS" is ridiculous.

I think I should clarify something I did not make clear when I started this thread...

My reasoning was really on the consideration of whether or not straight or crooked caught fish or not.

So far I have read a lot of good reasons for why a lure should run straight and true sometimes,  but so far it has been for technical reasons, not really a testament to whether it catches more fish or not. a lot of the reasons have been focusing on lure control more than anything else.

So it appears I am not communicating my intent with my comments. I was really focusing on whether or not crooked running lures caught fish as compared to a lure running straight.

When I started this thread I was not thinking about deep diving crank lures since I don't get to use those here in Florida where I deal with shallow water. I was not thinking about bouncing off rocks because I don't have rocks to bounce off of. I was not thinking about trolling because I don't do that. I have no reason to troll unless it is to look for fish without electronics, but the only reason I would do any trolling was if I was after food fish. Trolling to me is not sport fishing so I really don't do it. It is fishing, but not what I like to do.

So when I started this thread I was really intending to mainly deal with whether or not straight running lures catch more fish than crooked running lures. That reason alone is why I said what KVD was implying in his videos that straight catches more fish- and is "what I will want to do according to him- and crooked is bad and does not catch as many fish- and is conversely something I don't want to do.

I called BS on that alone. Just that. No other reason behind my comment.

I am of the opinion that erratic is just as successful if not maybe even a little bit more successful for me than worrying about straight running lures.

[steve76]

 If we throw technique out the window then I agree it matters less. We all know fish seem to bite better if they think the prey is in distress. An out of tune bait would present that better if no other action is given to the bait by the angler.

[LgMouthGambler]

We are worried about action, while some are out there fishing with senkos. Lol

<")))>{

[zippyduck]

Speed and action are the triggering points in all lures, including senkos. A double senko rig is not a do nothing rig and catches lots of fish.
With a tuned lure you can get the right action and speed, where as an out of tune lure will get out of control at higher speeds and not trigger bites too slow.

[FloridaFishinFool]

Speed and action are the triggering points in all lures, including senkos. A double senko rig is not a do nothing rig and catches lots of fish.
With a tuned lure you can get the right action and speed, where as an out of tune lure will get out of control at higher speeds and not trigger bites too slow.

For a second there I thought you were about to get into tuning up a senko! 

I had to read it a second time...

[Deadeye]

For a second there I thought you were about to get into tuning up a senko! 

I had to read it a second time...

Well...... Actually you CAN Tune a Senko, or any other plastic bait by adjusting one or more of several things.

Line Type, Line Weight, Added weight either Bullet or Nail, Hook Style and Weight. All these things effect how the worm falls.