When Braid Digs In

[Bud Kennedy]

Been poking around the archives for this subject and see that this has been discussed before.  I would like to open the discussion again as a way to get to my problems with braid line.  I have a running gun battle with braid digging into the remaining spool and therefore creating conditions where the cast stops in a very abrupt way.  This may be early or midway in the cast but the result is a birds nest or just an embarrassing cast that stops abruptly.

I have read that you should be fore to spool the braid in a very tight manner and then I read you should just spool it normally.  Also mentioned is that after a hang up or a fish catch where pressure was put on the line it will still dig in and may be caused by all the other casts that went well but when the line was wound in the line was no longer tightly packed.  The other question might be will line conditioner help the digging in situation.  I would also ask that shat preventative measures could be taken to help with this problem.

[coldfront]

I prefer thinner diameter braid than most (30#) and digging in is/can be an issue.
follow the tip from Fogelson years ago and routinely (ever couple trips)spool it off and put it back on under really tight pressure.

Plus I do what Lou does as needed.

I could toss heavier braid, but am unwilling to give up casting distance.

[Capt. BassinLou]

Line dig can be a real pita, to prevent it on the water, I hand spool several feet of line after a cast and reel it back with the line between my fingers and wind it tightly back on the reel. Mind you, if you have an active day catching quality fish, you will probably have to do this, several times in an outing.

[TNDiver]

Line dig can be a real pita, to prevent it on the water, I hand spool several feet of line after a cast and reel it back with the line between my fingers and wind it tightly back on the reel. Mind you, if you have an active day catching quality fish, you will probably have to do this, several times in an outing.

I do this a bunch as well.  Usually after I have a bad cast because of dig in.  But yeah, I wind mine tight as well

[Bud Kennedy]

Still looking for responses about line conditioner as a preventative measure for this condition. 

[rb-nc]

http://itainttv.com/proddetail.php?prod=BRAID
Bud this is what I use and its great. I use 3 different braids
Suffix 832 10lb on spinning.
Power Pro Maxcuatro 50lb for jigs and 30lb for cranking
P=line TCB-8 30lb jerkbait and topwater.

[Tavery5]

Still looking for responses about line conditioner as a preventative measure for this condition.

My thought about line conditioner on braid is that it is a good thing.  it does a few things for braid that I like.  It help keep the braid from fading, and also come through the eyes a little smoother.   Line conditioner (KVD) is hydrophobic, it helps prevent the absorption of water.  Reducing the absorption of water keeps braided line from bringing back water to the reel and your hands.  Line conditioner being hydrophobic also helps keep braid from swelling by reducing the amount of water it absorbs.  Prevention of the line swelling helps prevent braided line from dig in.

[Bud Kennedy]

http://itainttv.com/proddetail.php?prod=BRAID
Bud this is what I use and its great. I use 3 different braids
Suffix 832 10lb on spinning.
Power Pro Maxcuatro 50lb for jigs and 30lb for cranking
P=line TCB-8 30lb jerkbait and topwater.

Thanks Rick, I will pick some up from Wilson.  Thanks for the input

[Lee Smith]

My thought about line conditioner on braid is that it is a good thing.  it does a few things for braid that I like.  It help keep the braid from fading, and also come through the eyes a little smoother.   Line conditioner (KVD) is hydrophobic, it helps prevent the absorption of water.  Reducing the absorption of water keeps braided line from bringing back water to the reel and your hands.  Line conditioner being hydrophobic also helps keep braid from swelling by reducing the amount of water it absorbs.  Prevention of the line swelling helps prevent braided line from dig in.

Pretty much what I was going to say    I spool all my braid through a cloth soaked with conditioner and soak the spools down before leaving for each trip, actually done it at Guntersville each morning, yall where just asleep  .  I do not like the reel magic, it causes issues with my reels, don't know why, just know it does so I don't use it.  Also, when I have a good fight on braid, (or get hung up  )  I always make a short pitch then pull some off until it pulls freely. 

[merc1997]

after you learn the in's and out's braid, you will get along with it just fine.  spooling on tight is a must.  as tavery mentioned use a line conditioner.  i use plain old spray silicone.  yep, after a bone jarring hookset, you can bury the braid and when you keep that in mind and throw out the other side of the boat after boating a bass, pull the the stuck spot, reel back and continue fishing.

when dealing with a snagged lure.  do not snap your rod up and down as done with mono or fluoro.  this is a halfhitch looking for a place to happen.  bowtwanging does not work either.  simply point straight at the lure and give a gentle pull.  if that does not work, get ove the top of lure and do the same thing.  if that does not work, get out lure knocker and get it loose.

evrey line has its do's and don't's and braid is not any different.  it has to be retied regulary just as any other line.

bo

[TNDiver]

I am the same as the others, I use line conditioner.  Can't remember if it is KVD or Reel Magic now, but I use it.

[LgMouthGambler]

Its just something you learn to deal with using braid. Kind of like the whole tip wrap thing. Using 40lb and over helps. But when you set the hook like you are lifting a shark, you just have to live with it.

[West6550]

Its just something you learn to deal with using braid. Kind of like the whole tip wrap thing. Using 40lb and over helps. But when you set the hook like you are lifting a shark, you just have to live with it.

^This

I just simply turn and make a little harder than normal cast to clear it out. Then reel the line back under pressure.

[analfisherman]

I use The Professor Braid-Aid too.
It comes with a piece of Terry Cloth in the package for spooling your line.



From the manufacturer themselves.
I only do this upon 'first' spooling OR after fishing real dirty water, at the end of the outting OR before next outing.


Not sure why they don't show the 'cloth' application......maybe to show you how to apply it in the field???
Maybe just so you use a ton of it requiring you to have to purchase more, more often?

What I found out about Braid, (which really surprised me at first, along with never really even considering it) was how much 'dirt' actually adhered to the line after a days use......for that matter...brand new.
Dirt rubbing on dirt (no matter how minuet) creates friction and hang ups.

Great post rb-nc!
Great thread Bud!
Great input Pro Staff!

Now I know many braids now have Teflon Coatings and stuff when new BUT it actually wears off the line pretty fast.

I'm not really promoting the Professor product so much as letting you know how important treating braided line actually is.
Use whatever your favorite conditioner is and it will help.
Reason I use Professor is it REALLY does seem to last LONGER without reapplication.
And yes, as most have probably guessed, I've tried Reel Magic, KVD's, and straight Silicone amongst a few others.

[FloridaFishinFool]

I prefer thinner diameter braid than most (30#) and digging in is/can be an issue.
follow the tip from Fogelson years ago and routinely (ever couple trips)spool it off and put it back on under really tight pressure.

I could toss heavier braid, but am unwilling to give up casting distance.

I am with you on this one. I also use lighter braid and refuse to ever use anything over 30lb except for a frogging reel. And I have virtually zero issues with line dig.

So I would like to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion and suggest that maybe the line is not the source of the problem.

I think a lot of the problems some people might be having with line dig has to do with issues other than line diameter. And jumping up to 50lb braid or higher is asking the line to do for them what their technique may not be doing for them.

So I am thinking some fishermen are using 50lb plus braid for the exact same reason some guitarists use distortion! 

Its a cover up! But not necessarily the solution to the problem. Just covering for it.

So my point here is that maybe it is not the braid nor the line diameter, but possibly the way the reel lays it down along with the users' ability to keep it tight when winding.

I use 20lb braid on my curados and I can cast all day with virtually zero issues. So if the line diameter is NOT causing me the problem, then from personal experience it can't be the line at issue... I pay attention to what i am doing and if I see a problem with the line lay I stop, back it off to a good point and restart the retrieve even using my fingers to put tension on the incoming line to tighten it up as needed. I don't just reel and reel right over top of loose line and loops sticking up. I also will use my thumb to completely stop the spool and crank until the line guide is placed properly for winding up line where it should be for a nice line lay on the spool.

I guess I am saying that a lot of the problems noted are not line diameter only as the end all blame game and may boil down to technique and accumulated line lay problems not attended to...

[merc1997]

i am with you that the problem can with the reel used.  i use even down to a 10# test braid on baitcasters, with little issue of digging the line in all the time.  and, on top of that, i use antique reels, 4500 and 5500 series garcia's.  sometimes the problem people have with braid is from back lashing.  an educated thumb still beats sophisticated braking systems.

bo

[Bud Kennedy]

For sure my thumb gets lazy from time to time and I have attributed some of my issues to just that condition.  There have been a lot of tips passed on this subject that makes me think about what I have to do to prevent the problems that I have from time to time.  I have just got to prevent the cranial-rectal insertion and pay attention to what I am doing and things will be just fine.  I don't think I have a reel or rod problem.......I probably have a skills problem.

[FloridaFishinFool]

... I don't think I have a reel or rod problem.......I probably have a skills problem.

How can I say this??? When I use a spinning reel I can load up the rod fully and snap quickly into the cast rather hard for distance- almost to the point of worrying about snapping the line during the cast, but a baitcast reel can not work that way. Snapping it off the start of the cast tends to jerk the spool into a high speed spin out which can cause a lot of backlashes because the lure going out loses speed while the spool is still spinning off line faster than the lure can pull it out and off the reel.

I have had to learn how to cast by smoothly increasing my force further into the cast and not at the start of the cast. The line flow out has to be with a controlled speed and force- one that takes time and patience to develop, especially for those of us who hot rod our reels with ceramic hybrid bearings.

The line flow speed off the spool has to match the lure speed moving out and they slow down together or else a problem happens and the only place the mismatch in speed can show is on the spool when the line gets loose and backlashes.

I tend to think people who snap out their casts quickly off the top might see more line dig than those who learn to slowly power up into the cast. I use my whole arm for the cast and the rod and reel become an extension to that.

I have watched professional fishermen who flick their wrists for casting and I can't do it that way.

When I learned to cast it started off with short casts but making sure the line flowed off the reel at a smooth even rate, not a quick snap off the top jerking the spool into a high speed motion. Over time I slowly built up my cast coordination to cast as far as I can but still maintain the smooth line flow off the reel without jerking the spool into motion faster than the lure can pull it out.

And I am best at side arm casting. I do not do as well overhead and I lose accuracy trying to cast overhead. So I need a lot of room in the boat to side arm cast! 

So I am wondering if people who might do snappy casting are actually pulling/jerking the line down in between the line on the spool just by the way they cast???

[Bud Kennedy]

Your assessment may just be correct.  I do tend to snap it off from time to time.  The physics of the whole deal makes sense to me.  Using a golf term, I just have to keep a good swing thought when casting.

[LgMouthGambler]

Bud, the right reel with the right brake setting, proper line size for the baits being used, and proper rod are all things that come into play when using just about any line. There are really no excuses or tricks to it. They are baitcasters, and the better ones with the better braking systems are obviously gonna control things a little better. Focus Daniel Son. 

[Lee Smith]

Your assessment may just be correct.  I do tend to snap it off from time to time.  The physics of the whole deal makes sense to me.  Using a golf term, I just have to keep a good swing thought when casting.

I remember one time making a comment, "whip it good"    I may have even called you Karl once or twice those days    A good friend of mine whips every cast, then fusses about the braid digging in.  Smooth it out brother, let the rod work, load it up and let her fly, we ain't driving no buggy here, make a lob cast, get used to lob casting, then start tightening it up a little at the time. 

I spend way less energy and can put my lure a good ways out there I think, I make the rod do the work.

[Bud Kennedy]

Isn't it interesting how we as anglers seek solutions to our problems in many ways.  We tend to look for some miracle product that can cure our problems.  I guess more often than not we don't really think it through to correct some things.  Fishing like any other sport is all about the fundamentals.  If we can execute these fundamentals then many of the equipment performance issues will be self corrected.

While to some, our problem may be a blinding flash of the obvious it does not always sink in.  I always marvel when fishing with Terry G.  He uses his $20 Academy reel and can cast a senko a long way every time.  You guys have reminded me that sometimes all you have to do is look into a mirror to identify the problem one thinks they are having.  It is discussions like this one that highlights just how important it is to participate in these forums.  You might not like or understand some of the outcomes but this example points out that your brothers of the keyboard just may be able to get you headed down the right path.

[Oldfart9999]

after you learn the in's and out's braid, you will get along with it just fine.  spooling on tight is a must.  as tavery mentioned use a line conditioner.  i use plain old spray silicone.  yep, after a bone jarring hookset, you can bury the braid and when you keep that in mind and throw out the other side of the boat after boating a bass, pull the the stuck spot, reel back and continue fishing.

when dealing with a snagged lure.  do not snap your rod up and down as done with mono or fluoro.  this is a halfhitch looking for a place to happen.  bowtwanging does not work either.  simply point straight at the lure and give a gentle pull.  if that does not work, get ove the top of lure and do the same thing.  if that does not work, get out lure knocker and get it loose.

evrey line has its do's and don't's and braid is not any different.  it has to be retied regulary just as any other line.

bo

I've learned some of these lessons, the hardway. If it happens to me I pull more line off and reel it in tight. I do use a line conditioner, KVD or BPS, I don't use Reel Magic because I find it gums up the reel.
As has been stated a smooth cast is much better than a hard cast and helps prevent this.
Rodney

[Lee Smith]

Isn't it interesting how we as anglers seek solutions to our problems in many ways.  We tend to look for some miracle product that can cure our problems.  I guess more often than not we don't really think it through to correct some things.  Fishing like any other sport is all about the fundamentals.  If we can execute these fundamentals then many of the equipment performance issues will be self corrected.

While to some, our problem may be a blinding flash of the obvious it does not always sink in.  I always marvel when fishing with Terry G.  He uses his $20 Academy reel and can cast a senko a long way every time.  You guys have reminded me that sometimes all you have to do is look into a mirror to identify the problem one thinks they are having.  It is discussions like this one that highlights just how important it is to participate in these forums.  You might not like or understand some of the outcomes but this example points out that your brothers of the keyboard just may be able to get you headed down the right path.

If we ain't learning, we dead!    I learn from these pages day in and day out!

[Wizard]

When I use braid, I peel off the length of the furthest cast I will make. At that point I put a piece of tape across the line. The line will not be able to dig in past this point. I mostly do this for pitching and flipping. My most powerful hook sets are with these techniques and have the greatest risk of braid digging in on the reel