1998 Mercury 200 EFI Mechanical Damage Rebuild

[Bigwrench]

Ok got the call today the motor according to them is rebuild able but wouldn't be worth it ( I'm assuming if they did the work).  It was disassembled and checked real good and no wood or blockages in the water passages , so insurance is off the table. (Lower Unit was dropped and Port Head was removed)
"Absolutely no idea what caused it" I was told when I paid the bill lol
We got several options from them as to used engines and even new engine replacements just not sure financially we can swing either option right now so I am gonna talk it over with momma tonight and I got to call him back tomorrow and most likely will just tell them to box it up as is , don't put it back together and we are coming to get it and pay them for their trouble this Saturday.
Bring the old girl home and just start building it myself as time and money allows .....

I'll just have to live vicariously through y'all while me and momma spend a lot more quality time together the next couple years lol

Gonna start researching parts  prices and availability and should be able to get going on this thing in a couple weeks at most. Thanks for sticking with me and all the texts and messages of encouragement. Looking forward to rebuilding this thing and seeing how it turns out.

If you guys have recommendations on where to order parts Id appreciate it.
Stay tuned for the Build thread !

[Princeton_Man]

Was really hoping you'd get some help from the insurance. You decide against re-power and replacement boat? Next good day you're able to go, we need to load up Holston Slayer and do some catching.

[Bigwrench]

Was really hoping you'd get some help from the insurance. You decide against re-power and replacement boat? Next good day you're able to go, we need to load up Holston Slayer and do some catching.

Yeah we need to get on the water but looks like some long weekends building this engine in my future too.
  Yeah just can't bring myself to put $15k(ProXS)-$21k (etec) in engine on this boat still needing/wanting to add another $10k in additional stuff and still have a single console and a $15k boat value if  its in perfect condition.
Even with that "extra" income that recently found its way to me it's just too much right now with 2 car payments and a house payment to deal with.

Replacement used boat would even be more of a leap because no warranty and could be 3
Years from now with the same problem and a boat payment lol. 

Replacement new boat , don't think I could work that even if I had no bills lol $52-$76k !!!

All I can say is it's a dang good thing I'm married cause I'd have done went deep in debt lol.

[Donald Garner]

Rick,
Sorry to hear about the engine.  For sure boats aren't cheap especially new ones.  Used ones as you know are a crap shoot.  I've been pretty fortune with my Stratos I'm the 2nd owner and my insurance has helped both times getting the lower unit replaced and some glass work done.  Best wishes in the future on getting the Ranger back water ready.

[Ron Fogelson]

Dang Rick sorry to hear the news bud

[cojab]

Man that's a bummer.

I don't have any great advice, just words of encouragement. I'm sure you"ll figure out the best option. I just hope that you stay on the water and slamming 10 lbr's on frogs all day long!

Maybe the bass attacker becomes the BW bass slayer for awhile!!!

[Bud Kennedy]

Well Rick, I don't think you were surprised at the outcome.  Good luck on your future re build effort if that is what you decide to do.  Having just faced a similar reality, I can surely understand trying to solve a puzzle with no solution.  I chose to have my motor and lower unit fixed and spent an amount equal to the value of the boat.  It was either do that or just pack up my fishing stuff and go home.  It was not the best overall financial decision but it worked for me even when some repair shops said it was not worth the expense.  It was worth it to me and thats all that counts.  I understand financial stress and realize that some things just have to wait until it is possible.  Who knows this could be a great task for a father/son project.

[merc1997]

rick, you have built enough car engines to not have any real problems doing this rebuild yourself.  two strokes use needle bearing on the crank, but is still pretty much the same.  i would invest in a new set of reeds, and would go with a two stage plastic reed.  they perform better that the original metal one.  most of your parts can be purchased after market.  sierra is a good place to start.

donating your own labor will cut your rebuild cost by lots.  so, your biggest expense is just parts.  kind of like a bass is a bass, so are engines.

bo

[Bigwrench]

They removed one cylinder head and dropped the lower unit , charge was $156 (1.5 hours) and change (quote was $125 so strike 1 lol) .  After asking what caused it I was told "They don't have any idea" (strike 2 lol). That being said They were pretty nice to deal with down there but wish I had a trustworthy dealer closer to home. If I woulda scoped #6 it woulda never left the House so lesson learned lol.
I utilized one of my tool carts as a temporary bench and laid everything out

Lower unit

So here's where I admit I made a mistake
     I checked compression on #6 and had 0 but I never ran my scope in 6 because it was getting too dark and started raining. Once I saw #4 I didn't go further with the scope lol. If I had I would have realized that #6 was probably the point of failure and #4 was secondary (?) . Im assuming #4 took on water at the head gasket break there but ?
And it would have never left the house. Here's 2,4,6 Port head closeup

It appears that the head gasket blew between 4&6  to my untrained eye , some say fuel issue but I just don't know enough about these engines to say for sure yet.

Now as you can imagine , if the head looks that bad the piston and cylinder ain't pretty either

Scratches on #6


  Now heads are relatively cheap around $136 each , gasket $40 each , pistons are $144 each .
The scratches catch a fingernail but still may be able to either bore it .015" over or maybe even get it with my hone set.  That's going to be the deciding factor.
The other thing that I need to look at closely is the crank and connecting rods  real close. Crank is $1300 !!! So I'll start a price tally of parts needed soon as I can work it all up and I will be removing the power head this weekend . A power head assembly is showing NLA (No Longer Available) directly from Mercury.  There's a few places that have Ebay stores that they run around $3400-$5500
Obviously if it needs a crank, rods, all Pistons and at least one head I'm probably over the cost of a reman powerhead unit (appears to be a long block in car terms).
  And I really want to thank all of you for following along so far and all the words of wisdom and encouragement.
Phew !!!

[merc1997]

wrench that is a sleeved engine.  you can replace the sleeves if necessary.  what is your make and model and year?  a shop right down the road from me rebuilds two strokes all the time.

bo

[Bigwrench]

wrench that is a sleeved engine.  you can replace the sleeves if necessary.  what is your make and model and year?  a shop right down the road from me rebuilds two strokes all the time.

bo

98 merc 200 efi
Serial #0g644422
Model 1200413UD , it's the older version 200 the 2.5l , it sure doesn't appear to be sleeved from looking at it but could be lol.
Powerheads are available even looks like some New Old Stock
part # 813043T97 out there but pricey with 1 yr warranty. Just not sure what to do still , that's pretty significant damage. If it is a sleeved block that may help some.  I guess it will depend on the crank and rods too . Definitely want to do a cost comparison and see what the best route will be. Either way it's gotta come apart so I guess we will see how it goes.

[Princeton_Man]

One thing I'm certain of, that will be the most perfectly rebuilt Mercury on the water!

[cojab]

So Rick, all that damage on the #6 piston, what is that? Is that carbon type crap built up on it or is it deformity?
It kind of looks like little dents everywhere from detonation from the pics. I'm guessing from water in the cylinder. We can get the same looking type of damage in our fire pumps when they cavitate.

[Bigwrench]

One thing I'm certain of, that will be the most perfectly rebuilt Mercury on the water!

* crossing fingers* lol

[Bigwrench]

So Rick, all that damage on the #6 piston, what is that? Is that carbon type crap built up on it or is it deformity?
It kind of looks like little dents everywhere from detonation from the pics. I'm guessing from water in the cylinder. We can get the same looking type of damage in our fire pumps when they cavitate.

Yeah it's beat up pretty good , little dents or pieces that broke off . Just hammered it for sure.
Usually term it as "Detonated"

[merc1997]

98 merc 200 efi
Serial #0g644422
Model 1200413UD , it's the older version 200 the 2.5l , it sure doesn't appear to be sleeved from looking at it but could be lol.
Powerheads are available even looks like some New Old Stock
part # 813043T97 out there but pricey with 1 yr warranty. Just not sure what to do still , that's pretty significant damage. If it is a sleeved block that may help some.  I guess it will depend on the crank and rods too . Definitely want to do a cost comparison and see what the best route will be. Either way it's gotta come apart so I guess we will see how it goes.

way back, the 200's were a chromed cylinder wall.  your motor is a sleeved block.  why do you think the block is aluminum, but the cylinder wall are steel??  right???  i will do some checking for you about where to get piston and sleeve kits.  have you checked and mic-ed the crank yet???  you can also bore those sleeves to, i think .020 and put oversized pistons in.  been too long since i have messed with them, but i think i remember that right.  from your pics, you will need new heads.

if i get time, i will go over to the shop tomorrow and do some checking for you.

bo

[Bigwrench]

way back, the 200's were a chromed cylinder wall.  your motor is a sleeved block.  why do you think the block is aluminum, but the cylinder wall are steel??  right???  i will do some checking for you about where to get piston and sleeve kits.  have you checked and mic-ed the crank yet???  you can also bore those sleeves to, i think .020 and put oversized pistons in.  been too long since i have messed with them, but i think i remember that right.  from your pics, you will need new heads.

if i get time, i will go over to the shop tomorrow and do some checking for you.

bo

Hopefully I can get it off the boat this weekend and mic the crank and check the rods out. Makes sense about the block. Only experience I have had with re sleeving an engine was in old diesels , I just assumed in the engine parts diagram on Mercurys site they would show sleeves but just saw the block on the blow up. Would that be an aftermarket option ? Either way thanks  Bo , I sometimes forget you probably have forgot more about engines than I'll ever know
  I been a DADT for too long and need to think outside the box more sometimes. 

[Bigwrench]

Decided to tear into the engine tonight  since weather is turning nasty cold again this weekend, a few pointers before tear down .
Take lots of photos !!
I took probably 40-50 pictures from every angle imaginable paying real close attention to any wiring connections and ground cable locations. There are a lot of wires

and most of the wire colors match up on both sides of the connectors but there are a few splice connections that are one color on one side and a totally different color on the other
so I strongly suggest digital photos for reference.

I backed the boat up to the garage door , trimmed it all the way down , removed the cowl , removed and isolated the 2 battery cables from the starting battery and got to work.
  Laid down a large trash bag and then a fender cover over that to protect the rear deck carpet to have a large area to organize parts as they were removed.

Laid out my service manual and just followed the step by step powerhead removal directions in section 4

Removed the fuel line, oil line , battery cables and control cables that pass through the engine cowl. Most of the rubber lines are attached to their respective fittings using plastic wire ties and they have to be cut off using a small set of dykes or side cutters. Just be careful not to cut into the rubber hoses

Also be careful that some of these rubber lines are attached to plastic elbows and fittings and can easily break if your not careful

There are several parts used to attach the control cables to the motor so if your not real familiar with everything take more photos !!! I also marked the two control cables top and bottom for quick identification. The shift cable attaching nut can only be accessed with a socket and only if you shift into Reverse and pull the throttle lever all the way forward with your finger(cable already removed of course).

Here's a hidden spring that almost shot out into the yard on me

I tried to keep everything together with whatever part it came off of, for example
Starter motor brackets , bushings and bolts all together

Where possible I left things connected such as the trim motor relays

Instead of unplugging them I just left them connected and pulled the relays out of their isolation bushings and laid them aside.

Once all the wiring that had to be disconnected to lift the powerhead was taken care of it was time to remove the bottom cowl halves , in this instance there are 4 bolts holding them together and once removed you have to pull pretty hard to get the halves to separate from the motor. These were stuck in the rubber seals and bushings.



Once removed there are a total of 10 nuts that hold the powerhead in place only 8 had flat washers , the two in front didn't have enough room to add a washer

so make sure they go back on the correct locations. As you can see once the two front ones are removed you can't get the nut out due to clearance so they will fall out when the powerhead is lifted don't lose them

There is very little clearance to get a wrench in and they are a little tough to get out (loctite on threads) with the open end of a combination wrench just take your time and flip your wrench over to get another 1/8 turn .
Had to remove the water hose from the fitting on the exhaust adaptor plate , it was stuck and had to tear it off . It will have to be replaced.


Once all 10 of the powerhead nuts are removed it is ready to be lifted off. The service manual shows a special tool (lifting eye 91-90455) being screwed into the threaded hole in the top center of the flywheel (remove plastic cap if present to access threads, mine wasn't there) and lifted off using an engine hoist.
I went around the base and lightly pried up on the powerhead in a few locations and it easily popped free of the attaching gasket. Also was able to remove those two remaining attaching nuts on the front this way so as not to lose them. I do not have the lifting eye so will have to get creative , most likely will get a buddy or two on one side and we will lift it off by hand. Don't recommend trying this by yourself as the studs are probably 6-8" long and it will have to be lifted straight up until it clears the exhaust plate.

That's all for tonight after all that and throwing together a quick Homopolar Motor project for Holston_Slayer that is due tomorrow (just told us tonight !!) I'm a tired puppy
For what it's worth it took a total of 1 hour 15 minutes to get to the lifting point and that's with taking all the photos . More to follow.

[Donald Garner]

Rick
Best wishes on getting the Merc back in Operating Mode.  Tks for sharing this with us also.

[Ron Fogelson]

Good luck Rick and great photos   

[merc1997]

ok rick, i checked with doug and showed him your pics.  he thinks you will most likely just need pistons which come with rings.  you can bore up to .044, but most likely .020 will clear up cylinders.  you need rod bearing set, rod bolts, set of reed valves and gasket set, and heads (which doug said, you can most likely find a set of used ones.  your parts total should be less than $1500, and if you can not find the stuff, doug can get you everything.  they have only rebuilt 50 engines since the 1st of the year.

doug said that your mains will be just fine unless you have damage to the crank, which he doubted just like me.

bo

[Bigwrench]

ok rick, i checked with doug and showed him your pics.  he thinks you will most likely just need pistons which come with rings.  you can bore up to .044, but most likely .020 will clear up cylinders.  you need rod bearing set, rod bolts, set of reed valves and gasket set, and heads (which doug said, you can most likely find a set of used ones.  your parts total should be less than $1500, and if you can not find the stuff, doug can get you everything.  they have only rebuilt 50 engines since the 1st of the year.

doug said that your mains will be just fine unless you have damage to the crank, which he doubted just like me.

bo

Thanks Bo !! Mercury is only showing 0.015" allowable Cylinder boring so  Ill probably have to get in contact with him because the only pistons I can find available are 0.015" over so must be some sort of racing thing or something. I should know about crank and rods tonight or tomorrow sometime.

[merc1997]

  Thanks Bo !! Mercury is only showing 0.015" allowable Cylinder boring so  Ill probably have to get in contact with him because the only pistons I can find available are 0.015" over so must be some sort of racing thing or something. I should know about crank and rods tonight or tomorrow sometime.

here ya go.  .  this will take you to the wiseo catalog.  you can get most of what you need from them.  you need to put a set of boysen reed in while doing this.  they not only perform better, but if you ever suck one, they will not destroy the powerhead because they are plastic.

bo

[cojab]

Your making great progress here Rick, and some great info from Bo!

Sorry this happened to you but this thread is going to be very educational. Thanks for showing how to do this.

[Oldfart9999]

This will be interesting, are you going to get the "other" boat ready so you can fish?
Rodney