Side scan imaging...

[SpartanBass]

Well just got a new boat and I will be adding a unit to the front deck. I was thinking of going with a structure scan/ side scan unit. Still not sure if I want HB or Lowrance. Question I have is that since the unit transducer will be on the trolling motor, is side scan even with it?  I was told you need to be going between 2 and 8 mph to get a picture.  Would I be better with a down scan unit at the trolling motor and wait to put a side scan unit at the console?  If I go with Lowrance you still need the structure scan unit for down imaging, right?  Thanks for the help.

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[CliffL]

I wouldn't think you could put side scan on your trolling motor. The rotation of the motor wouldn't allow it to work properly.

[Wayne P.]

This image is a Humminbird Side Imaging transducer on my trolling motor. I know several dozen that do the same so I would guess the number of those that do the same is in the thousands. I see Humminbird Side Imaging transducers on tour level pro anglers' trolling motors.
There may be limitations with Lowrance equipment, but there is none with Humminbird Side Imaging. A zero speed works just fine when the unit is adjusted and used properly.

[Wayne P.]

This image is with my trolling motor mounted SI transducer and bow mounted SI unit.
I was following a summer pattern creek channel and had the unit settings adjusted to highlight fish. I wasn't interested in what the rest of the returns look like. Pretty pictures don't catch fish.
I get very clear images of "stuff" if I choose.
Note the blazing speed:

[Wayne P.]

And for a final slam dunk. This image was taken after I saw a ball of shad with bass under them as I was weaving through stumps with the trolling motor. After saw them, I turned the motor backwards to stop forward movement, and then caught a couple of the bass. I then turned the motor slowly to see where they were moving to--white streaks with shadows. I caught a dozen bass from that school as a couple of boats watched. They came over after I stopped catching them to see what I was doing. I showed them this screen shot and explained what it represented. Both boat owners purchased Humminbird Side Imaging units after that and theirs is on the bow with a trolling motor mounted SI transducer.
The ONLY useful information on a sonar display while fishing is the very first row of screen pixels. If a return is not constantly being "painted" on that very first row, it isn't within the coverage of the sonar pulse. So it makes no difference if the whole screen HISTORY has a pretty image or not.

[Mike Cork]

Great example. The washed out part of the screen (the top) is what everyone sees when on the trolling motor and don't understand it.

I didn't until Laurie was watching it one day while I was fishing and asking questions and then we seen exactly what you're talking about in this picture

[Todd Driscoll]

Well just got a new boat and I will be adding a unit to the front deck. I was thinking of going with a structure scan/ side scan unit. Still not sure if I want HB or Lowrance. Question I have is that since the unit transducer will be on the trolling motor, is side scan even with it?  I was told you need to be going between 2 and 8 mph to get a picture.  Would I be better with a down scan unit at the trolling motor and wait to put a side scan unit at the console?  If I go with Lowrance you still need the structure scan unit for down imaging, right?  Thanks for the help.

With Lowrance and HDS units, yes you need StructureScan and with that you get both down and side scan.  Lowrance also sells stand-alone downscan-only units (Mark and Elite series DSI).

[SpartanBass]

And for a final slam dunk. This image was taken after I saw a ball of shad with bass under them as I was weaving through stumps with the trolling motor. After saw them, I turned the motor backwards to stop forward movement, and then caught a couple of the bass. I then turned the motor slowly to see where they were moving to--white streaks with shadows. I caught a dozen bass from that school as a couple of boats watched. They came over after I stopped catching them to see what I was doing. I showed them this screen shot and explained what it represented. Both boat owners purchased Humminbird Side Imaging units after that and theirs is on the bow with a trolling motor mounted SI transducer.
The ONLY useful information on a sonar display while fishing is the very first row of screen pixels. If a return is not constantly being "painted" on that very first row, it isn't within the coverage of the sonar pulse. So it makes no difference if the whole screen HISTORY has a pretty image or not.

First, thanks for the post they are awesome. Next, Excuse my ignorance but the white streaks are the bass?  I guess I have no idea what I am looking at just yet. Is it hard to learn how to interpret what you are seeing?  Am I the only one lost here?

[Wayne P.]

Yes, good catch.
If you notice on the bottom of the image, there is a creek channel (dark area) on both sides, that is why I was checking that location. When the shad are not directly in the creeks, they are lunch waiting to be served.

[SpartanBass]

Hey Wayne P.  what unit do you have?


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[Wayne P.]

SpartanBass, I have two Humminbird 1198c SI units and a Humminbird 798ci SI unit.

[TreyB55]

......... Wow. I can only imagine. All I can afford is a cheap 5" dual beam.

[SpartanBass]

SpartanBass, I have two Humminbird 1198c SI units and a Humminbird 798ci SI unit.

Damn Wayne, can you talk to NASA with all that equipment ;0). I am looking at the 898 SI combo.


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[Wayne P.]

I subscribe to the philosophy "you can't have too much information"

[SpartanBass]

I subscribe to the philosophy "you can't have too much information"

Unfortunately I  am subscribed to  "I don't have enough $$ to afford that" :0(


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[SpartanBass]

Hey Wayne, where did you get that transom shield and wire guard?  And will it work with either Motor Guide or Minn Kota?

[Json]

 I've been staring at the images for 10 mins and still can't figure them out. I was thinking about getting some SI equipment like this. Maybe after a read of the manual it will make sense. I'm pretty sure you spent more on electronics than I did on my boat lol.

[Wayne P.]

SpartanBass, the transducer mount is the TM-HDsi made by Transducer Shield and Saver. It is the base for their mount systems and there are models for most transducer brands and styles. Just the mount fits most if not all trolling motors. Check their web site for available products.

The cable guard is a prototype I designed to protect the cable from impact since I fish in trees/stumps a lot. There are only two in existance, the other one was given to a friend to test and I submitted the design to Transducer Shield and Saver for consideration in their product line.

Json, there is a image interpretation forum on Bass Boat Central that will help you learn how to read the images.

[ozarkbilly]

Wayne
I recently installed a HB 898c SI on the console.  I have two issues.  1 My side image isn't as sharp as it should be.  I'm pretty sure it's a settings thing.  Even though yours is a 1198 will you share the settings you use or direct me to a sight that will.  The down image is perfect so I don't think its a cabling thing.  2 the water temp does not display probably something isn't turned on.  2 isn't a big deal it's only important in the early spring to me anyway.  But you buy it, you should get it.

I live fish on Lake of the Ozarks in central Mo.  It was built in the mid 1930's.  At that time the thinking was clear cut and burn everything the would be submerged.  So any structure you can find is a leg up.  Which is the reason for the purchase also down imagery has two sonars one 20 degrees one 60 degrees so you can see a lot more under the boat.   I guess that is the reason for the overgrown transducer.

[Wayne P.]

I'll start at the end of your post and work forward.
The HDSI transducer is large because it has one round crystal for 83/200 kHz just like any other 2D transducer with the 20 and 60 degree cone pulses, Lowrance included.
Next it has two bar shaped sonar crystals with one on each side to transmit and receive the 800 and 455 kHz Side Imaging pulses. It also has a temperature sensor ( little shiny thing on the trailing end). It creates the Down Imaging with software using the Side Imaging crystals. This is an X-Ray of the HDSI transducer:


Next is unit settings.
I really don't pay attention to what settings I use as I change them a lot to get the best images at any particular time and location and whether I am scanning or fishing.
Use the SI Sensitivity setting like a brightness control to get the image quality you want.
Set the Screen Scroll speed to about what the GPS speed is. You can compress the images with slower speed or stretch the images to make stuff look larger. Also, use boat speed to adjust image quality also, the slower the better.
As far as the Side Imaging color, I use several during the day and change according to how the images look in different lighting conditions. I usually start the morning with Brown, and by mid-day I am using Amber 1.
Sometimes I use the Inverse color to show fish as in the images I posted.
Along with the fish setting, I use the Enhance/Sharpness setting of Low or Med to highlight the fish--it makes the overall image sort of grainy looking but fish is what I want to see.
As far as the Side Imaging range setting, you have to consider what you are looking for and how much screen space it will take up and be noticeable with the range setting that is doubled (same on both sides) plus the water column doubled.
Example: a 100' range setting in 20' of water will have 240' of displayed image. That is the bottom plus water column on both sides. A 12" bass will be 1/240 of what is shown on the display. When looking for general bottom features or large objects you can use longer range setting and rescan something that looks interesting using a short range setting. A "rule of thumb" for getting the best images according to the depth is use a range setting of three times the depth. In really shallow water, use a range setting of a long cast since there won't be much of a water column.

You have your terms incorrect, Down Imaging is the imaging technology-the same as Side Imaging. What you are referring to with that term is 2D sonar for the down looking cone shaped pulses.

A starting point for any settings is the factory default settings.
To improve on those, as the screen is scrolling, push the 4-way botton which pauses the scrolling, push the menu bottom and make adjustments to get the image quality you want. As stated above, use the SI sensitivity setting as a brightness control. That should be changed as the depth affects the pulse echo strength and as the bottom hardness affects the the pulse echo strength. If you don't make adjustments as conditions change you are not getting the best images the unit can produce.
Basically those are the only settings you need to fool with.

If you unit detects a temperature sensor, that will be one of the choices in the Select Readouts menus under the Setup Tab. Scroll left and right for each position to see all the choices on both sides of OFF. You will not get the temp selection if the transducer is not connected to the unit like I do in-house using Simulator. If you don't get that selection choice you probably have a faulty sensor. You can bring up the unit's status page and see what the unit detects that is connected.

Lastly, the 1198c SI and 898c SI do exactly the same thing and use the same transducer.
In actuality the 898 has a higher pixel density display than the 1198 does. The 898 has 17,533.4 pixels per square inch and the 1198 has 8,858.2 pixels per square inch. The bigger units display stuff bigger but with less image quality. The 798ci HD SI display has 31,170.5 pixels per square inch --that is a High Definition display.

[ozarkbilly]

Wow Wayne you are the man 

Thank you for clearing up misconceptions.  The x-ray is over the top in explanations of why/how it works. 

You read the manual, go to the web site and all you get is the canned answers.  I even called a HB tech he told me to put the monitor on someone else's boat and see if it works.  Yeah like the next time I'm gassing up at the marina I'll ask the next boat to take his unit off and put mine on and see if it works. 

Thanks again

[SpartanBass]

I just bought an 898 SI combo. Question, can the transducer it comes with be mounted with a transducer shield on the trolling motor or do you have to purchase a "trolling motor" transducer?


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[sillybass]

I just bought an 898 SI combo. Question, can the transducer it comes with be mounted with a transducer shield on the trolling motor or do you have to purchase a "trolling motor" transducer?

You can use the one that comes with it , with  a shield from Transducer Shield and Saver.

[Wayne P.]

There is not a trolling motor puck style of transducer of the HDSI like it is for the Compact SI transducer.
From Humminbird, there is a trolling motor adaptor which is a metal bracket. Their bracket model number is AS STM 7---http://store.humminbird.com/products/271655/AD_STM_7

The HDSI transducer that comes with that bracket is the XTM 9 HDSI 180 T and is the same one that comes with the transom bracket XHS 9 HDSI 180 T.

You can use the Compact SI puck transducer, but the SI crystals are shorter and you loose some sharpness in the images. That transducer is the XTM 9 SI 180 T and is the larger one in this picture:


The TM-HDsi mount from Transducer Shield and Saver will give you the most sturdy mount for fishing in stumps/trees.