Lead lures, safety and poring

flowerjohn · March 13, 2016, 11:09:53 AM

Never tried that. Now you got me thinking again Rodney.

Dark3 · March 13, 2016, 12:03:04 PM

Quote from: flowerjohn on March 08, 2016, 09:12:38 PM
Rodney and all. This is a great thread. Making lures for me has become over the years about not saving money but making lures that are mine and what I want to make to think what will catch fish. I got hot on floating rats and it took me almost a year to find someone who would skin them tea them and send them up. Put on a carved cedar form that I figured out and with eyes and a wire tail I came up with one hell of a bait that works great up here. I look at it as a craft. Love makin those ones. Cheers. J.

I forget the brand (is it rago?) (isnt he one of the OG big swimbait guys) that makes a pretty expensive rat. Im a collector by nature and would love to have a couple but not sure I could bring myself to lobbing it out into the thicket

flowerjohn · March 13, 2016, 12:10:40 PM

Quote from: Dark3 on March 13, 2016, 12:03:04 PM
I forget the brand (is it rago?) (isnt he one of the OG big swimbait guys) that makes a pretty expensive rat. Im a collector by nature and would love to have a couple but not sure I could bring myself to lobbing it out into the thicket

I never seen one for sale up here. Just got the idea from looking at a bunch of realistic looking duckling lures a friend made. I figured a rat might work. I was right. The first time i threw one i miscast it and got a great birdsnest from nerves. They are pretty durable and they float so they are pretty easy to not lose. The damned preserved hides are the problem. Tough to get ahold of. Cheers. J.

bigjim5589 · March 13, 2016, 03:06:58 PM

John, you need to take up fly fishing with the heavy gear, 10, 11 or 12 wt! There are some pretty large flies that look like mice & other critters. Check out Pat Cohen's website, rusuperfly.com and take a look at his display flies. They're made for display, and the prices reflect it, but similar could be made for fishing. Check out his "Bass Bugs" also, particularly the first one listed, Big Ben.

Anything you can think of can likely be done, even a baby muskrat. Lemming imitations are popular for Alaskan trout.

Here's one of my fly boxes with "critter" flies that I've used. Some of them I tied, some where purchased.

flowerjohn · March 13, 2016, 03:15:05 PM

Quote from: bigjim5589 on March 13, 2016, 03:06:58 PM
John, you need to take up fly fishing with the heavy gear, 10, 11 or 12 wt! There are some pretty large flies that look like mice & other critters. Check out Pat Cohen's website, rusuperfly.com and take a look at his display flies. They're made for display, and the prices reflect it, but similar could be made for fishing. Check out his "Bass Bugs" also, particularly the first one listed, Big Ben.

Anything you can think of can likely be done, even a baby muskrat. Lemming imitations are popular for Alaskan trout.

Here's one of my fly boxes with "critter" flies that I've used. Some of them I tied, some where purchased.

Thanks for that info Jim. Never knew you could get those big lures like that for a fly rod. I have an eight weight fly rod setup that I traded for some gear last summer. Haven't tried to learn that technique yet but I intend to this summer. I have some mates who catch some pretty nice LMB on fly rods and it looks like a real exciting way to fish. Thanks again. Cheers. J.

snakeeater · March 18, 2016, 10:15:51 AM

As far as getting good pours on your jig heads, I've found if you get the mold pretty warm by pouring a few dummy heads with no hooks, then start pouring with the hooks, it works as advertised. Just my experience...

bigjim5589 · March 18, 2016, 11:18:11 AM

Snakeeater, Welcome to Ultimatebass & The Tackle Box forum! Glad you joined us!

Most of us who pour do that as well. Sound advice!

If you get the chance, feel free to post pics of some of your jigs. That's what this forum is about, sharing what we enjoy doing! I always like to see what others make & I know other folks here do as well!

Oldfart9999 · March 19, 2016, 12:30:42 PM

Quote from: snakeeater on March 18, 2016, 10:15:51 AM
As far as getting good pours on your jig heads, I've found if you get the mold pretty warm by pouring a few dummy heads with no hooks, then start pouring with the hooks, it works as advertised. Just my experience...

Welcome aboard Snakeeater. You're right, that is a good technique, sometimes though you will run across a mold that won't pour well and other things need to be done, and we are sharing what we do to help others.
Rodney

Oldfart9999 · March 27, 2016, 02:53:36 PM

There is craft hair then there is craft hair, some will drive you crazy some will make you smile. I decided I wanted to tie some white craft hair jigs for crappie so I went to my nearby craft store and a skein of white, black and brown, toddled on home and prepared to tie some white ones. WHAT A FREAKING DISASTER!!! Now I have unintentional tremors so fine work can be difficult but this was past difficult. The hair wasn't really very even, even after I combed it out and I now have some very ugly hair jigs. I found a skein I had bought several years ago from the fly tying section of a tackle shop so I combed it smooth and things started to look up, I cut a pinch, trimmed it and tied away, Holy Moly, even this Oldfart might be making decent hair jigs.
Moral of this excursion, buy the proper stuff, even if it costs a bit more, it'll work better.
Any body want some craft hair cheap?
Rodney

flowerjohn · March 27, 2016, 05:36:41 PM

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on March 27, 2016, 02:53:36 PM
There is craft hair then there is craft hair, some will drive you crazy some will make you smile. I decided I wanted to tie some white craft hair jigs for crappie so I went to my nearby craft store and a skein of white, black and brown, toddled on home and prepared to tie some white ones. WHAT A FREAKING DISASTER!!! Now I have unintentional tremors so fine work can be difficult but this was past difficult. The hair wasn't really very even, even after I combed it out and I now have some very ugly hair jigs. I found a skein I had bought several years ago from the fly tying section of a tackle shop so I combed it smooth and things started to look up, I cut a pinch, trimmed it and tied away, Holy Moly, even this Oldfart might be making decent hair jigs.
Moral of this excursion, buy the proper stuff, even if it costs a bit more, it'll work better.
Any body want some craft hair cheap?
Rodney

Rodney. You are so right. When you buy some fur or feather that you know you can use it goes a long way. Buying the right material and having it work gives you a finished product that you look at and you say "Hey that might just work." Happy Easter. J.

bigjim5589 · March 27, 2016, 07:02:36 PM

Rodney, I discovered the exact same thing with craft hairs. That's a reason I still like natural hair over craft hairs. However, I've been tying long enough that I can use most anything I buy in one way or another. But, I agree with you, once you find a product that works well for you, stick with it.

I bought some craft hair at a craft shop several years ago & it wasn't good for tying jigs. I used it for tying some flies so was able to make use of it, and found a different craft hair for jigs. The hard part is figuring out what's best to use, and unless someone else directs us to the "good" stuff, it often takes trial & error to find it.

Getting a good material is always going to make the end result turn out far better than using sub par materials.

One thing about craft fur/hairs is there's a certain amount of finer fibers found at the base that needs to be removed, just like with natural fur/hairs in order to get a good end result when tying. You can't simply cut & tie. I learned that the hard way too!

Oldfart9999 · April 28, 2016, 03:35:12 PM

A quick note for powder painting; If you use a fluid bed be sure to have a way to adjust air pressure. Different color powders have different densities so a setting for one color could cause another to blow out.
Rodney

bigjim5589 · April 28, 2016, 03:38:53 PM

Timely post Rodney! I've poured some jig heads recently & need to get my fluid bed set up so I can powder coat them. I had to order powder too the that's arrived already.

The pressure thing wasn't something that was on my mind, so thanks! I have a regulator on my compressor & one inline with the air hose, so not a problem.

Oldfart9999 · April 29, 2016, 06:32:11 AM

I bought all my powder from Powder By the Pound, you pay about twice for a pound as you do for 4 ounces of the PRO-TEC, another good source is CS Coatings.
Rodney

bigjim5589 · April 29, 2016, 11:33:07 AM

Yep, that's where I bought some as well, based on a comment I believe that you had posted previously.

I also bought some from an Ebay seller. I'm working on some saltwater jig heads for plastics, plus some other stuff so needed colors that aren't what most bass fishers use, like pink, orange & red.

Thanks again!

Jim

Johnny Smith · May 18, 2016, 10:15:22 PM

Quote from: snakeeater on March 18, 2016, 10:15:51 AM
As far as getting good pours on your jig heads, I've found if you get the mold pretty warm by pouring a few dummy heads with no hooks, then start pouring with the hooks, it works as advertised. Just my experience...

I do this as well but also set the mold I will be using across the top of the pot as it is heating up....... hard to beat having everything ready to go when your eager to start pouring!!

If you are still having problems with your pours after everything is heated, you should probably flux your lead. I use a lot of used lead and generally flux it as I am cleaning it for ingots to be used in my pots.

For those that are not familiar with fluxing, It's not for the faint of heart (it will cause a flame to shoot out of your pot and you will wonder what the heck you have just done

). I use an old fashion (unscented candle) for my fluxing. Once the lead is hot enough, drop a chunk of candle into the pot and let it burn. Once the flame has died, stir the sediment into the lead and it will bring all of the impurities to the top so you can remove them.
WARNING: Fluxing will put off a lot of flame, smoke, and odor so please do not do this in you home or garage that is attached to your home....... your wife will get mad

A lot of pouring problems can be solved by fluxing the lead.

Oldfart9999 · May 19, 2016, 07:56:50 AM

Thanks for the reminder Johnny, even "new" clean lead should be fluxed when starting to pour.
Welcome to UB, hope you enjoy and use the site, lot of very good and nice folks here! Don't forget the new members contest, check it out.
Rodney

Oldfart9999 · February 02, 2017, 06:02:16 AM

I had some left over flux from some plumbing work I did a long time ago so I decided that instead of tossing it I'd flux my pot with it. Wrong thing to do! I forgot that it was for "silver solder" not lead base solder. The resulting contamination ruined the ability of my pot to pour. It took almost an hour for me to get the molten lead out of the pot so I could clean it. I had to take it apart and really go at it and after an hour and a half it was ready to go back together, the 10 lbs of lead was tossed, I wasn't taking a chance with it.
I melted 10 lbs of "fresh" lead, some shot that was given to me, and went back to fluxing with paraffin, sucker pours great now but I lost several hours of work and 10 lbs of lead. Fortunately I have several hundred pounds of lead which is more than enough since, basically, I pour for myself, but still it's a waste.
The moral is, use paraffin or go with flux from made just for lead, makes life easier.
Rodney

bigjim5589 · February 02, 2017, 07:08:42 AM

Rodney, thanks for posting that! I never gave something like that a thought, but there are things that can mess up the process. Another is zinc, which melts at a higher temperature than lead does. I have some large wheel weights, made for commercial truck wheels. When I got them, mixed in with other wheel weights, my first thought is that's a good amount of lead. However, something just didn't seem right. I tried melting them, in a clean pot, but couldn't get them to melt. So, I did a little research, and turns out they were zinc. Now, zinc will alloy with lead, but from what I read it makes the resulting alloy a lot harder, and doesn't pour real well when molding smaller items, such as jig heads. A good lesson to learn since it didn't cost me any of my lead supply, but it could have.

I have had no problems with using wheel weights, even though they're also alloyed to make them harder. I pour larger sinkers & jigs with them and as long as I get everything hot enough, it works fine. But, now I know I need to be careful about identifying exactly what it is I'm using, just as you've learned with silver solder flux.

Oldfart9999 · February 02, 2017, 07:43:31 AM

Jim, wheel weights can cause big problems if they have zinck in alloy, most if not all new ones have little or no lead, it's for environmental reasons. They can be identified, Tackleunderground has info on it under the "wire baits" section, if I get a chance later I'll check and post what I find out.
Rodney

Oldfart9999 · February 05, 2017, 05:46:00 PM

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on February 02, 2017, 07:43:31 AM
Jim, wheel weights can cause big problems if they have zinck in alloy, most if not all new ones have little or no lead, it's for environmental reasons. They can be identified, Tackleunderground has info on it under the "wire baits" section, if I get a chance later I'll check and post what I find out.
Rodney

Jim, the only thing I've been able to find is that lead melts at around 600 degrees and zinc at 750, the guys that use ww keep the temp low enough so the can scoop out the "floaters" or the zinc just melts and forms a shiny pool on top that can be spooned out. The weights that are glued onto the wheels tend to be "pure" lead. Most of the custom pourers I read by lead from Roto Metals so they don't have to worry and they don't have to do the fluxing and clean up that salvage lead requires. I don't have any ww but it's still "used" lead. I got it for free so no complaints.
Rodney