Basic frog rod setup questions

[The Rooster]

I'm looking to set up a frog rod for use fishing in the lily pads on a local lake. My basic understanding is that it needs to be pretty stiff to wrestle a bass out of the pads, and have braided line to help cut through the vegetation. Also a fast reel to take up line quickly. Is that about right?

Other questions I have are:

Is a longer rod better? Can I get by with a 6'6" rod (my comfort range) or do I need a 7' or longer?

Besides being stiff for strength, I would think it would also need to be somewhat limber in order to cast a hollow body frog which is pretty light weight. This part I'm confused on. Is a medium heavy/fast good enough? Or a heavy/fast?

And is braided line absolutely necessary? Can just plain mono work?

Besides frogs, what else might this combo work for? I'm imagining this will be stouter (maybe) than anything else I currently have. For comparison, my current heaviest setup is a BPS Fish Eagle rod, 6'6" MH/F, 1/4-1oz lure rating, with 14# copoly line on a 31" IPT reel (7.5:1 ratio). This is my jig/worm rod. It feels pretty stiff but I didn't know if it would be good enough to drag bass out of the pads, especially without braid.

I've fished around the outside edge of these pads for years but never much casted into the thick of them. Occasionally I'd chance a cast out across the pads with a worm, a fluke, or a frog, but haven't ever yet had a hit. I don't do this often though because I figured it was useless unless I had a stouter rod than what I have. I've thought many times about making up a heavier rod just for these pads but never wanted to spend the money on a rod for just one thing at just one lake.

[Capt. BassinLou]

A frog rod should not be a broom stick.  However, the rod should be a at least a MH, with a Fast or XF Tip. Heavy if you are fishing thick cover. Length. Minimum 7 feet. Sweet spot imho, 7ft 3". If you're a long caster and like fishing in the thick stuff like me, then I would say 7ft 6". But most people would just recommend a MH 7' 3".

Fishing line. Non-negotiable: BRAID. 40lb minimum! I personally enjoy 50lb. My recommended rod would be a Dobyns 735. Pick the trim level that suits your budget.

Good luck! Frog fishing is one of the best top water techniques!   

[The Rooster]

Thank you.

If it would be a Dobyns rod, I'd probably just go with the Fury. Why is having just 3 more inches of rod the sweet spot? Maybe for just a little more tip so it loads and casts better?  I'd love to compare rods side by side but nobody local sells the Dobyns rods. I'd have to order whatever I got.

[Capt. BassinLou]

Thank you.

If it would be a Dobyns rod, I'd probably just go with the Fury. Why is having just 3 more inches of rod the sweet spot? Maybe for just a little more tip so it loads and casts better?  I'd love to compare rods side by side but nobody local sells the Dobyns rods. I'd have to order whatever I got.

A longer fishing rod will cast better and load better when setting the hook. Several online retailers sell Dobyn rods. Good luck!

[J.W.]

I built a frog rod recently, but up until then I was using a Dobyns Fury 734c with Spro 65s and the occasional 6th Sense Vega with no problems.

[Donald Garner]

Most frog setups are Medium Heavy to Heavy Fast Tip Casting Rods.  A 7ft rod will work just fine if that is what your comfortable using.  Prior to upgrading my rods to Dobyns I was using the Bass Pro Shop Extreme 7ft Casting Rods.  My frog setup was the BPS Extreme 7ft (H) Fast Tip casting rod.  I had a Abu Garcia Revo SX 6.4:1 Baitcasting reels with 25lb Berkley Big Game Clear Mono spooled on it. 

You can use Mono if you want to.  The issue with mono in fishing Pads, Reeds stalks etc. is the wear  that occurs when the line rubs against the vegetation etc. the line will break at the rub site.  I didn't have any issues frog fishing with it.  With Mono you'll need to check your line more often than you would using Braided line. 

My current frog setup is a Dobyns Fury 735C matched with a ABU Garcia Revo SX baitcasting reel.  I have Power Pro 50lb Green Braided line spooled on it.

Like Lou mentioned:  A longer fishing rod will cast better and load better when setting the hook. Several online retailers sell Dobyn rods. Good luck!

The Fury 735C can be used for Flipping and Pitching soft plastics and jigs.   It can be used also for Small Swimbaits.   You could also use it for Spinnerbaits if you wanted too.

 

[ike8120]

My setup is 7'3 fast action... heavy power with 7.4:1 reel with 65# braid. This can also be used for swimbaits.

[D.W. Verts]

Just sayin'...



Dale

[J.W.]

Just sayin'...



Dale

I'm gonna have to try that split ring trick, Dale.

I didn't know y'all had that kind of vegetation up that way. If you'd've hung some moss on them trees I'd have sworn you were in Louisiana 

[D.W. Verts]

If we had Spanish Moss (and Gators) my wife wouldn't want to move to Louisiana!

We have Cypress trees and button bushes and Milfoil and Coontail... We even have Cypress swamps in the Bootheel. Thanks for watching.

Dale

[Donald Garner]

Dale, tks for sharing the Frog Video with us.  I felt like I was in the back of the boat fishing with ya 

[The Rooster]

Just sayin'...



Dale

Thanks for "sayin"! Wow! I learned so much from that video! Thank you!

[D.W. Verts]

Awesome Rooster- that's why I do it.

And Donald, my small bucket list includes spending some time on the water with you for sure. Thanks.

Dale

[D.W. Verts]

Oh yeah, about your "fast reel". I believe I stated in the video (no I don't go back and watch my own stuff very often) I believe the opposite. I'll take POWER over speed any day.

Dale

[Hobious]

i like a longer rod with a softer tip.  right or wrong i use my Levante Perfect Pitch.  the worst thing about that rod is i get to hear by friend tell me my rod is too light.   i let him talk because it is his boat.

a longer rod picks up line faster.  the equation for arc-length is L=Omega(R).  the longer the rod, the radius, the more arc length so on your hook set, you pick up more line quicker.

i am not great at frogs.  i have a hair trigger.  so a softer rod allows me some hope in not yanking the frog out of the fishes mouth before it has it.

i like a regular 7:1 ratio reel.  i use a Daiwa SV TW because it is the only reel i can somewhat skip a bait. 

[coldfront]

Oh yeah, about your "fast reel". I believe I stated in the video (no I don't go back and watch my own stuff very often) I believe the opposite. I'll take POWER over speed any day.

Dale

hear you Dale.  I want BOTH if I can get them.

the other piece of it?  a strong thumb.  I clamp down on the spool for drag assist....  and a fast reel lets me take up slack line or that line I need to recover as I drop the rod to pump the fish.

i know we're 'bout to get into differences of strategy and approach... but, BUT... I've never ever 'locked down' my drags.  just use my genetically gifted over-sized thumb...

Don:  i just can't figure out how to make mono work for frogs.  it's not about strength, abrasion.  it's all about stretch for me.  the 'no/limited' stretch of braid, for me, is critical for getting good percentages of hook ups...   now, I DO fish 30lb braid because I can cast further with it than athe 50+ stuff most folks swear by...

[D.W. Verts]

My gosh, the bass I would have caught years ago while fishing heavy cover with a frog, or my Silver Minnow, if we'd had BRAID. Oh my. Mono SUCKS at this kind of fishing. This kind of fishing WAR.

And Kurt, that locked down drag thing. I just about got pulled in that pond yesterday using my locked-down drag, No time to disengage, and MAN, it just about sucked. Funny?

Dale

[Donald Garner]

CF; Back in the day when I first started fishing Frogs / Top Water Spooks etc...25-30lb Berkley Big Game Clear line was what I had spooled up.  Yep there's that 'Stretch Factor' but we managed to catch some fish.  Some made it to the boat and well you know the deal some didn't.

Today if your Frog Fishing etc. especially in pads, grass, reeds, laydowns you had better have some braided line   

[Hobious]

And Kurt, that locked down drag thing. I just about got pulled in that pond yesterday using my locked-down drag, No time to disengage, and MAN, it just about sucked. Funny?

Dale

what?  I fished Brazil.  I locked down my drag on everything.  I mean I LEANED into the star-nut.  Shimano Curado 150 MGL was the main reel.  so locked down as hard as I could, the fish still pulls line.  locked down isn't 100%.  on that reel it is like 13lbs.  a medium sized Peacock (8-9lbs) will get that thing screaming.

punching and frogging, I used 65lb braid, and my drag is winch tight.  Mono would stretch way too much.  Flouro is no good with the sudden hammer strikes, it snaps.

[DMTJAGER]

Let me save you some grief by preventing you from making a few of my mistakes.
I'm no frogging expert but I have devoted the last 3 years+ at trying to perfect my frogging technique.
By my home and by now over 60% of your fishing is either soft plastics rigged weedless or fishing a frog in lily pads and weeds. I shore fish 90%+ of the time. I frog fish lily pads targeting openings and differences in the pads like fallen trees, logs, or where different weed types and pads come together, cattail points or small isolated cattail islands near shore, any cover or structure that is different then just lily pads.

Tonight I caught four bass on a frog missed one bigger bass had three bass that were IMO to small to power through the pads to get to my frog. The four bass I caught were all over 3lbs all I actually watched them make a wake heading towards my frog, I stopped working my frog when the bass got very close, I reeled down and established a tight line to my frog each time, felt the bass on my line literally waited 2-3 seconds and set the hooks as hard as I could with a sweeping hookset. It was awesome exciting as I got to watched them gulp it down.

Best piece of frog fishing advice I ever got was 1st determine the average size of the majority of bass you will likely end up putting your frog in front of. In my lakes its bass from 2lbs to less than 5lbs. Bass over 5lbs in my lakes accessible from shore are very rare. This is important because the mouth on a 5lb or larger bass is MUCH bigger than the mouth on a 2lb to less than 4lb bass. For the first two years I frog fished I knew next to nothing about frog fishing other than the hookup ratio was poor at about 50%. So I bought frogs that were 2.75-3" long and quite fat not knowing better. Finally after two very frustrating years of 100s of bass blowing up on my frogs and I hooking at best 45-50% I started watching YT frog fishing videos.

One video suggested as I listed above, use a size of a frog best suited to the size of the mouths on your bass and if very few bass you encounter are over 4lbs then use a small frog no more than 2.5" long 2" if you can find one.

Second piece of great advice I learned was use frogs made from as soft of plastic as you can find that the plastic will compress with essentially no effort so when the bass bite your frog the plastic compresses easily and exposes the hooks to do their job as well as possible.

So in mid July of last year I went on line and found a 2.25" long frog made out of tissue paper thin plastic and gave it a try. Side note I sharpen all my hooks to absolute scary scary pointy sharp.
I went fishing during ideal frog conditions in an area of pads with lots a cattail points accessible by wading only that I knew held a good population of bass. Up to this point I had gotten pretty good not great but good at waiting till I actually felt the bass load my rod before I set the hook.

Turned out to be my best frog fishing night ever in a little over five hours till dark, 13 bass blew up on my new frog I hooked 10, I landed and released 8. I personally feel I can't ask for much better results than that.

My advice:
*Use a small or smaller frog to start even if bass over 5lbs are a real possibility until you get good at waiting till you feel the bass has your frog to set the hook. I do not see any possible down side of using a frog only 2-2.25" long
*make sure your frog is made from very soft phastic the compresses with little to no force
*I use a popping frog in less than heavy cover and a pointed nose non-popping frog in heavy cover as the pointed nose of a non-popping frog will go through heavy pads and weeds in my experience better and get hung up and pick up weeds less often
*What the top of your frog looks like is absolutely ireleavent the bottom color is what matters. I use bottom colored frogs that match the pray forage of the lakes I fish but day in and out a white bottom frog with some orange and chartreuses or yellow belly work very well for me.
*be sure to squeeze your frog regularly (every 3-4th cast) to insure it's not filling up with water as if it does it will adversely affect the action of your frog.
*in MY EXPERIENCE a pointed front frog has a slightly better hook up percentage than a popping frog on my lakes, but on MY LAKES popping frogs get more blowups. I suspect the wider front of a popping frog compresses less easily than a pointed front frog.
*Use a baitcasting set up rod should be IMO/IME minimum 6'6" 7' better. Must be a MHFA rod. I Use a MHFA 7'3" casting rod a 7.1:1 casting reel.
*Braid is an ABSOLUTE MUST HAVE 50lb minimum 65lb works great. Put on a minimum of 75 yards over a mono backer as I can cast a 1/2oz 2" Lunker Hunter Compact frog 50 yrds if even a mild wind is with me 40 yards into the wind.
*You have to max out your concentration when working your frog NEVER take you eyes off your frog, when a bass hits I reel down in a controlled manner to take up your slack to your frog until I can feel the frog loading up my rod and then execute a hard sweeping hook set MY EXPERIENCE is that bass has to have your frog for 2-3 seconds minimum before you set the hook. In MY experience you can not set the hook to hard especially if the bass hits and you have out 30-40 yards of line.
*Set your drag as you see fit, but I personally have my drag set max tight and do my best to winch the bass up onto and over the pads to me. I have lost two bass one late last season one 1st week of June, I feel were undoubtedly my PB for this lake because 1st one I had to lose of a grag and the bass crashed dived into the pads and got off, 2nd one was a brand new baitcasting reel I just forgot to set my drag tight enough and he got in the weeds and got off.
You will be amazed how hard it is to get a 4-4.5lb bass out of hella-thick pads and weeds let alone a 5-6lb hog or just how lightning fast a big bass can power dive into the weeds. But if you have a bass well hooked a tight drag a good MHFA rod and 50-65lb braid you can literally winch him out of some unbelievably thick weeds because braid will actually saw its way through weeds and pad stems as you are pulling like crazy and reeling like mad.

Hope this was helpful. Best of luck