Roadside fishing and cops

BenFishing · June 10, 2012, 08:45:15 AM

Quote from: West6550 on June 09, 2012, 09:53:40 AM
From a LEO.

In Florida your not allowed to fish off interstates or bridges. Really it's because of parking issues and safety to be honest. I fished a local pond for 2 plus years. Contacted our Agriculture department in the county, contacted Fish & Wildlife and our Highway Patrol before fishing it. I was told to leave one day by a Highway patrol.. I notified him I looked into it and was told I was legal by above mentioned people. Also no city ordinance because I was on county land. Once I told him that he didn't care. He said I needed to load my Jon boat and leave. I showed him my badge then he told me. The company who owns the property (Toll Road) doesn't allow people on the land for liability issues. So really I wasn't in the wrong fishing but was for being on there land. Even with no posted signs or fence. I understood but, I was still aggravated..

Also wanted to note. Flex your rights! Most cops are genuine good people doing a job. But you do get the occasional "I'm a cop" mentality that makes us all look bad. Heck in Florida you can OPEN carry a firearm while fishing and to and from.. I always have a gun. Mainly because a few years ago a man was found dead in the water, his boat near a canal connecting lakes. Someone robbed him and killed him. Still unsolved... crazy people out there.

Alright, I guess the title of my thread is a bit misleading.

I'm not trying to fish interstate ponds and such. And by roadside, I'm not flicking the emergency lights on and sitting on the shoulder, making sure there all cars are clear before casting.

I'm fishing places that usually have a fairly big pull off already, or parking a ways away and walking back, or places like my neighborhood pond (which is private, for resident use only). I'm not that jacka$$ sitting off I-495, fishing a retention pond. I'm that guy who is parked and fishing off 198, right by the Patuxent Research Refuge, in the stream....far away from the road, and near all the people swimming and partying, who are not getting told to leave. Or that guy who is fishing a private retention pond in Columbia, with the strip mall owners permission, but it's after hours and an officer who drove by and saw me, demands that I leave....not even asking me if I have permission.

bigjim5589 · June 10, 2012, 09:44:01 AM

QuoteOr that guy who is fishing a private retention pond in Columbia, with the strip mall owners permission,

Ben, get written permission if you can, preferably on company letterhead. Then when the officer questions whether or not you should be there you can show him the permission. In MD for hunting purposes written permission is required, but not for fishing. However, I've been thru this too, and written permission holds much more legal weight. Anyone can say they have verbal permission, but how's the officer to know.

I certainly understand your position, but I think you have to also understand it from the officers perspective. He deals with folks who would lie to him in such situations all the time, so he's not going to take your word on it. Perhaps that particular officer is being an a$$, but frankly you don't know what he's been told by others, or what other circumstances he's had to deal with there. He does not have to explain his position to you either.

QuoteI'm that guy who is parked and fishing off 198, right by the Patuxent Research Refuge, in the stream

Don't know if you're having an issue in that area, but used to be some of that property was part of Ft. Meade so it was Army property, and off limits. MD laws allows for stream access, and the stream beds themselves are not owned by the adjacent property owner. However, I'm not sure how that applies to a military base. MD law says you can wade legally, up to the normal high water mark, but you cannot trespass above that point, so again access is the issue. If you're crossing military property, without permission to get to the stream, you would still be violating the law. I know some of that area has changed hands, but think it's still federal property. You might want to check to be sure it's open to public fishing. The folks there swimming & partying could be military folks from the base, and may have permission, so don't assume they don't.

Many, many years ago, a section of the base in that area was a regulated hunting area, under the control of the MD DNR. To hunt you needed a daily permit, and during the hunting season there was a DNR office there. It was easy to get access back then. I fished that area too when I was younger, but would go on the base & get permission from the Provost Marshall's office. Was not a big issue before 9-11, but afterwards that all changed.

BenFishing · June 10, 2012, 02:03:51 PM

Quote from: bigjim5589 on June 10, 2012, 09:44:01 AM
Ben, get written permission if you can, preferably on company letterhead. Then when the officer questions whether or not you should be there you can show him the permission. In MD for hunting purposes written permission is required, but not for fishing. However, I've been thru this too, and written permission holds much more legal weight. Anyone can say they have verbal permission, but how's the officer to know.

I certainly understand your position, but I think you have to also understand it from the officers perspective. He deals with folks who would lie to him in such situations all the time, so he's not going to take your word on it. Perhaps that particular officer is being an a$$, but frankly you don't know what he's been told by others, or what other circumstances he's had to deal with there. He does not have to explain his position to you either.

Don't know if you're having an issue in that area, but used to be some of that property was part of Ft. Meade so it was Army property, and off limits. MD laws allows for stream access, and the stream beds themselves are not owned by the adjacent property owner. However, I'm not sure how that applies to a military base. MD law says you can wade legally, up to the normal high water mark, but you cannot trespass above that point, so again access is the issue. If you're crossing military property, without permission to get to the stream, you would still be violating the law. I know some of that area has changed hands, but think it's still federal property. You might want to check to be sure it's open to public fishing. The folks there swimming & partying could be military folks from the base, and may have permission, so don't assume they don't.

Many, many years ago, a section of the base in that area was a regulated hunting area, under the control of the MD DNR. To hunt you needed a daily permit, and during the hunting season there was a DNR office there. It was easy to get access back then. I fished that area too when I was younger, but would go on the base & get permission from the Provost Marshall's office. Was not a big issue before 9-11, but afterwards that all changed.

Jim,
I normally do try and get written permission for private property. I also usually sign a paper saying I won't hold them liable for any injuries I may incur, whether my fault or not.

For that particular time though, I had only called the owner, and received verbal permission. The officer walked straight up to me, demanding I leave, without asking if I had permission. He had not received a call from the owners about a trespasser...he told me he'd seen me there while driving by and knew I didn't belong.

As far as explaining his position, I actually think that is his responsibility. LEO should be clear with what they are doing, and why. Past bad experiences with other people are no reason to treat every person like they are committing a crime. It's a fine line to dance between being safe, keeping others safe, and not violating the rights of civilians, but it's their job.

The section I'm talking just out of the Patuxent Refuge, but still technically still part of Ft.Meade....either way, I still have access to the refuge as well. I have access to Ft.Meade. The officer did not challenge any of the other people, that were splashing around and grilling on the sand bar. They put up a sign to say "No boating," but there is nothing about fishing. DNR said it was ok, and Ft.Meade said it was ok. I've actually waded further back, and run into a couple MPs with a working dog, and they said it was ok as well.....granted, an E-5 and and E-6 aren't the final word, but they are responsible for patrolling the area, and should know who can access the area.

bigjim5589 · June 10, 2012, 02:27:45 PM

QuoteFor that particular time though, I had only called the owner, and received verbal permission. The officer walked straight up to me, demanding I leave, without asking if I had permission. He had not received a call from the owners about a trespasser...he told me he'd seen me there while driving by and knew I didn't belong.

My guess, a Howard County officer?

Different attitude there than in most other counties!

I wasn't sure about the area at the Patuxent, but as long as the MP's are good with it, you shouldn't have a problem. You might want to try the river further down, off Patuxent Road on the other side of the Refuge. I use to fish there a lot too. Just walk in & go under the railroad tracks, there used to be some nice holes back in there. I was checked in there by NRP, but never by the police.

BenFishing · June 10, 2012, 06:36:55 PM

Quote from: bigjim5589 on June 10, 2012, 02:27:45 PM
My guess, a Howard County officer? Different attitude there than in most other counties!

I wasn't sure about the area at the Patuxent, but as long as the MP's are good with it, you shouldn't have a problem. You might want to try the river further down, off Patuxent Road on the other side of the Refuge. I use to fish there a lot too. Just walk in & go under the railroad tracks, there used to be some nice holes back in there. I was checked in there by NRP, but never by the police.

Thanks for the tip, Jim! So far, just catfish, a small largemouth and smallmouth. Still fun though, and only around 5-10 minutes from the house.

luv2bass · June 12, 2012, 05:16:44 PM

If you are fishing a main river that is not closed to fishing by the DNR, you should be ok. However, if you are fishing some smaller branches, you have to make sure that it is not a military area, first and foremost, but you have to make sure it is not state, county or railroad property. It is not always marked and it does not have to be. Some areas are just so many feet from the road and some could go 100's of yards. Best thing to do is check with the state, get it in writing, then check with the county zoning and get it in writing. That should give you the yay or nay of fishing. I am a LEO, I would not steer you wrong or just guess cause I don't know. I love fishing too and look out for fellow fishermen. I hope this info will help you and keep those LEO's off your A$$. AS an LEO, I hate when they threaten, If they were right they should just act, if they don't...find out first then inform you. Good Luck.

BenFishing · June 12, 2012, 06:55:21 PM

Quote from: luv2bass on June 12, 2012, 05:16:44 PM
If you are fishing a main river that is not closed to fishing by the DNR, you should be ok. However, if you are fishing some smaller branches, you have to make sure that it is not a military area, first and foremost, but you have to make sure it is not state, county or railroad property. It is not always marked and it does not have to be. Some areas are just so many feet from the road and some could go 100's of yards. Best thing to do is check with the state, get it in writing, then check with the county zoning and get it in writing. That should give you the yay or nay of fishing. I am a LEO, I would not steer you wrong or just guess cause I don't know. I love fishing too and look out for fellow fishermen. I hope this info will help you and keep those LEO's off your A$$. AS an LEO, I hate when they threaten, If they were right they should just act, if they don't...find out first then inform you. Good Luck.

Thanks! Your response is the typical response I get from officers, too! Most are just questioning to see if I know the law, and if I seem knowledgeable and it looks to them like I'm ok, they head off. Just a few that have gotten pushy and rude.
When I can get permission in writing, I do, but even after being 100% sure over the phone, some of these city employees aren't so sure when you show up in person to get that written permission.

bigb201 · June 12, 2012, 06:59:17 PM

Are you fishing the area off of 198 by the softball fields? I fish there all the time on my way home from work and have even parked next to an officer there and had no problems

Please do not use Outdoor Hub Mobile, Please find and use TapaTalk for your phone

BenFishing · June 13, 2012, 07:11:28 AM

Quote from: bigb201 on June 12, 2012, 06:59:17 PM
Are you fishing the area off of 198 by the softball fields? I fish there all the time on my way home from work and have even parked next to an officer there and had no problems

Yep, right there.

luv2bass · June 14, 2012, 06:22:14 PM

Sorry for the "typical response". The info given was the best to protect you. I was not questioning your knowledge of the law. Guess you will have to figure out why they only mess with you and not others fishing.

BenFishing · June 14, 2012, 06:45:03 PM

Quote from: luv2bass on June 14, 2012, 06:22:14 PM
Sorry for the "typical response". The info given was the best to protect you. I was not questioning your knowledge of the law. Guess you will have to figure out why they only mess with you and not others fishing.

Could be because I'm a bum that can fish at anytime. Seeing some dude on a boring Tuesday, hanging out, when he should be at work. Not to mention, my out-of-state plates.

Either that, or just a stretch of bad luck with it, and it might not happen again for the rest of my time in Maryland.

And you didn't give a bad typical response. You gave the response I'm cool with when officers approach me. Good to hear an LEO's point of view. Got a couple helpful ones through messages too, from other LEOs.

West6550 · June 26, 2012, 07:25:43 AM

Hope your LEO run in has reduced and your having a good time out there.

BenFishing · June 27, 2012, 08:39:21 AM

Quote from: West6550 on June 26, 2012, 07:25:43 AM
Hope your LEO run in has reduced and your having a good time out there.

No negative run-ins lately, but mostly fishing regular spots for now....not many smallmouth in the roadside ponds.

coldfront · June 27, 2012, 09:55:20 AM

uban/suburban lakes here...many little silt retention ponds in neighborhoods...

the lakes are all 'parks' and posted to have hours...guess we're fortunate here...the LEO's leave the anglers alone...but do swing by...and if things don't look 'right' do encourage you to move along.

and with posted hours they can do that.

does help keep the underage beerfests down...

bigjim5589 · June 27, 2012, 01:31:39 PM

Many years ago, before I was married, a friend & I used to go in & fish at Ft Smallwood at night. The park was owned by Baltimore city back then. The police used to come in & chase all the kids out who were partying & drinking. Even saw a few arrested. One city officer we met was a fisherman & would let us stay. First time he came around, his first remark was, "you guys do know the park is closed at night?" His next question was, "catching anything?"

We saw him several times & always had some good fishing conversations with him.

We only carried soda's or water in & our tackle, so he never told us to leave. But, he did warn us that if his supervisor came around, he would likely tell us we had to go. Never happened though.