Tips for using SONAR "Fish Finders"

[Ouachita]

It might be a good idea to start a collection of sonar tips in one place. This is a very busy topic everywhere I visit on the web, so why not go for the most comprehensive sonar source on the web right here on Ultimatebass? I'd like for everyone interested to first do a little reading so we can get the basics covered, then we can get into particulars not covered in the following article I think is one of the best introductions out there. It's a downloadable document that has tested virus free.

http://webpages.charter.net/abshire5078/Chart%20tutorial.doc

If there's interest I'd like to make sure every sonar user here can get the most out of sonar charts towards more excellent fishing. I'm not an expert on sonar, but have studied every resource I can find and put it all to use to get the most out of my investment of money and time fiddling with it on the water. If we take time to accumulate our collective knowledge we might all become experts together. 

Jim

[Ouachita]

Now for a little general stuff. Sonar "sees" mostly the air bladders in fish, but also can detect their scales and fins to a lesser degree. The flesh of a fish is too close to the "visibility" of water for it to distinguish the majority of a fish. Some species have large air bladders so their arch is more pronounced than others. The closer the transducer gets to the air bladder the thicker the arch display.

While on this one way to diagnose fish species on sonar is to note how quickly it can swim up a great distance. A lake trout can do that easily because of a duct that regulates it's bladder. A walleye, however, must take time to burp air out to swim up quickly, the reason you should never horse a walleye from deep to shallow. Let it burp its way up and there will be much less lactic acid and other gar bubble buildup in its bloodstream, and much more likely to survive to be released or stored in a livewell. Find out what your favorite fish species' air bladder characteristics are to better manage finding and handling them.

Jim

[bassadict69]

Great Idea Jim, I am definately looking forward to this!

[Ouachita]

Great! You encourage.

I read back through the document and decided to clarify a point or two. When a signal first appears on the right side of the screen, keep in mind it contains all echos in a 360 degree range around the transducer. Most of what you see is going to be toward the edges of the cone, including the best signal from directly below the transducer. That's why a fish appearing on the screen probably isn't directly beneath the boat, but it appears that way. That's why it's important to compare round topped arches to sharp bent arches.

Another point is not to be discouraged over the emphasis on a color display. For obvious reasons that's much better than grayscale. I know. I've used grayscale many years and now color, and won't consider going back, but I could get along with grayscale just fine if fishing out of your boat using that display. The document information applies to all display types. You can interpret the colors as variations of gray on your grayscale display. What shows up in color would appear as simply darker on grayscale. The stronger the echo, the stronger the colors. If you use grayscale you'll just have to spend more time examining the display. This also would apply to portable units hanging off a dock or tossed out from a shore. The principles are all the same regardless.

One last point for now. The display in the document is high resolution. Your unit might not be able to match that, showing blocks of images. That's a definite handicap. Might as well say that, it's fact. Do your best to come up with a 480 X 480 pixel display or better. It's the best place to put your hard earned money, above power, above screen size, or any other sonar feature. I'd rather have a 3" wide screen at high resolution than a 10" screen with 280 X 280 pixels. It would be no different than choosing a big screen TV with a very poor picture over a smaller screen with excellent quality images.

Jim

[bassadict69]

What tips can you give for getting the proper arches?

I have the 332C & cannot get an arch for nothing. I have tried everything I can think of including adjusting the transducer angle.

[Ouachita]

I just lost a big post answering. I'll abbreviate for now, elaborate tomorrow. To see fish arches:

1. Transducer cleaned of oil film, aimed bottom down, not tilted, tight in bracket.
2. Minimum noise on sonar screen. Not excess dots and meaningless lines all over.
3. Hot battery for strong signal.
4. Abandon auto sensitivity. Run it to 100%. You can always back off later if there's too much junk on screen.
5. Ping rate 100%, all the time unless operating two sonars at once.
6. Boat speed barely moving up to trolling speed. If stopped any moving fish make growing lines. If they are suspended move the boat a little to set up arch display. You just need to bump the trolling motor to get a shot, like snapping a photo hitting the shutter once. Once you get a signal it will draw on the edge of the screen and that's all you need if wishing to remain still and in stealth mode.
7. ZOOM. I rarely see anyone use the Zoom feature. It's VERY important. The most common error is leaving a sonar set to always display all the depth range, say from 0-100 in 100' of water. Mostly empty water column is displayed. As soon as the unit picks up a target depth range, manually zoom in to the active target, ignoring empty water above. You only want to view bottom to target and slightly above target. That magnifies the images so you can pick out fish arches.
8. Keep in mind the lessons in the document. Rounded arches are closer to center of cone and high contrast images are closer, echoing stronger signals. Faint arches sometimes appear as half arches, and those are sometimes almost standing on end, more so in the outer cone range.

If you have a problem in any of those steps we can get into detail on them. I hope that works without having to solve problems like noise.

Jim

[bassadict69]

I will try the settings tomorrow. Thanks!

[calincalif50]

sure could have used your expertise today.  although there were actually alot of bubbles being released in the lake today, they appeared like long diagnoal lines across the graph.  Never thought to turn off the auto function on this lake thats over 100 feet in places.  Guess I';ll do some experimenting.....when I get some new finders

[Ouachita]

Well, just like sonar sees fish air bladders first, it sees air bubbles floating up from bottom. They appear like a fish swimming up, but their graphed line is too straight. A fish won't make such a perfect slanted line. If it's straight as an arrow from lower left to upper right all the way up at a sharp vertical angle >60 degrees, it's usually a gas bubble. A bass' line will break here and there, make more of  a softer 45 degree angle or less. That's all based on high sonar chart speed. Slower chart speed sharpens the angles to more vertical. That's one reason I use fast chart speed, to easily recognize gas from fish. The other is I want a fast update on when a target is closest to the transducer, or whether it's moving away. I want to know whether I'm spooking them when I arrive, which if they are spooking I will only have a last parting shot at them leaving the outer cone range. I also want the lines of moving bass flattened out so I can evaluate better how bass are relating to a lure inside the cone. I like to watch the lure make it's line, and determine whether bass make lines paralleling or intersecting my lure's line. A slow chart compacts the lines too much. That information helps me adjust lure speed, depth, etc. If I interpret the screen to say bass approach but break away, there's something wrong with the lure- they don't like it. If I didn't see that happen I might just assume there were no feeding bas in the area. But if there are feeding bass, by the fact they are following my lure, changing lure presentation style or tying on another one might catch a bass instead of motoring away.

Jim

[Ouachita]

It's been a month since I opened this thread with a tutorial link to

http://webpages.charter.net/abshire5078/Chart%20tutorial.doc

and was wondering how many went there, and whether there is interest in discussing sonar. You won't find a better free tutorial than that one. I highly recommend learning all you can now before using your electronics come spring.

Jim

[BassBUFF]

I'm so glad you brought this back up. I originally saw this link at work and couldn't download it, then I forgot about it. My mistake.

This is a very informative article and answers a lot of questions that you may have on exactly "what" you're seeing on your graph. Lots of on the water pics and explanations of what you're looking at.

If you own a graph, you need to read this!!!

Thanks Jim !!

[Warpath]

Ouachita,

I printed it out and I have for future reading.  I would love to get better at rwading my graph and map reading and I'm sure this will help.

Thanks,
Eric

[Ouachita]

Using sonar to find bottom and whatever else you can't tell what it is?

I don't use a sonar as a "fish finder". I pay a lot more attention to a small school of shad than to fish arches. In order of priority I look for structure, then baitfish, then fish arches. The idea is to first locate "different" where bass are attracted to, any feature bass like to hang around, like a ledge, hump, stump, boulder. I watch for signs of things bass eat. If I see those then I know bass are not far away and will focus on fish arches that are sometimes very hard to recognize. If I'm still over a spot and a bass moves I'll see it make a line on the screen and know its depth, and whether its swimming up, down, or horizontally then decide on the best bait presentation.

Study the tutorial to always recognize easy to see structure and balls of baitfish and you'll be well on your way to locating fish more efficiently than looking for fish on the screen.

Jim

[bassadict69]

The other is I want a fast update on when a target is closest to the transducer, or whether it's moving away. I want to know whether I'm spooking them when I arrive, which if they are spooking I will only have a last parting shot at them leaving the outer cone range. I also want the lines of moving bass flattened out so I can evaluate better how bass are relating to a lure inside the cone. I like to watch the lure make it's line, and determine whether bass make lines paralleling or intersecting my lure's line. A slow chart compacts the lines too much. That information helps me adjust lure speed, depth, etc. If I interpret the screen to say bass approach but break away, there's something wrong with the lure- they don't like it. If I didn't see that happen I might just assume there were no feeding bas in the area. But if there are feeding bass, by the fact they are following my lure, changing lure presentation style or tying on another one might catch a bass instead of motoring away.

Jim

Reading that post, I take it you can actually see your bait on the sonar & how the fish are reacting to it? That is awesome! Next time out, I will have to drop a line down & see if I can see it on the sonar.

Quachita, If me & the wife make it to Hot Springs this year for a weekend, reckon I could get some first hand instructions?

[Mike Cork]

Out west we used to fish as deep as 50-60 foot and you could watch your baits on the sonar. It was really cool  and you could learn a lot from watching the fish react. Most times you would see a streak across the screen right before a strike

[Ouachita]

That would be great. Come right on.

IF I get to take off for Dale Hollow maybe if anyone is interested we can all have a sonar/gps session there too. A small course of different features could be marked in the water and supplying boaters with a description as to what it probably is so folks can get an idea of what's going on. If I attend a different non-boater could go out and get a lesson, too. The more teachers on hand the better to get everyone introduced to this.

I drop shot often, so let it down right at the trolling motor. As long as the rig stays in the cone it will make a line going down on the graph. When it stops the line levels out. Any fish coming around the bait make their own lines, horizontal if stopped, or making a zig zagged line if moving, so I can tell how the bass is relating to the bait. If I'm stopped still a still fish shows as an arch. If the arch is close and turns into a line that stays on the graph, I assume its going for the bait or at least investigating. If the bait doesn't interest the fish enough to bite it I change to something that might get a reaction bite, like a spinnerbait, jig, or spoon. Those show up even better on the graph.

Jim

[Ouachita]

Yessir, Mike! It's kind of hard to hold that bait still and not take it out of the fish's mouth. Your heart pumps harder a little longer counting those not usually felt fishing "blind", not knowing whether there even be any fish in the area until you get bit. 

Jim

[bassadict69]

If I'm stopped still a still fish shows as an arch. If the arch is close and turns into a line that stays on the graph, I assume its going for the bait or at least investigating. If the bait doesn't interest the fish enough to bite it I change to something that might get a reaction bite, like a spinnerbait, jig, or spoon. Those show up even better on the graph.

Jim

I thought the boat had to be moving in order to show arches. I though if you were sitting still the fish would just show up as a horizontal line?

[Ouachita]

Almost any movement of either boat (over maybe 1 mph) or fish destroys the arch image and replaces it with a line if the fish is moving, an indistinct blotch if the boat is moving. Usually, when the boat is travelling a few miles an hour, any suspended fish appear as inverted slivers, the front or back half of an arch, very difficult to distinguish from debris, branches, etc.. If the sensitivity is high enough and you don't have any screen clutter (from electrical noise or lots of suspended junk), it's possible all fish would make horizontal lines though not moving at all. But in fact no fish remains perfectly suspended, so the slightest movement makes at least a very thin horizontal line or row of dots. But if the screen is full of dots from debris or baitfish, you won't see a row of dots.

The arch is a peculiar image that depends on very precise sending and receiving of a sound pulse. It takes "just right" sonar conditions to see a good arch. The more still the boat, the better the imagery. That's why it's usually a waste of time motoring around looking for fish arches. It's better to look for baitfish balls or habitat. You could be passing over hundreds of bass and see nothing but what appears to be clutter. It's best to stop dead still then look. The streaking is a dead giveaway. Arches can be tree branches with some algae clumps, so I try to zoom in on that and look for the yellow bladder dot in the middle of the arch.

Take another look at page 17 in the tutotial to see a shot made by a drifting boat that caught one arch really shallow right under the transducer, and lines of active feeding fish near bottom. The closer a fish is to the center of the cone and closer to the boat, the better the arch display.

Jim

[Ouachita]

When looking over an interesting spot using sonar and you see the little "fingernail clipping" shaped objects around structure (probably fish), circle it slowly rather than run straight grids as when locating any fish at all. If you will circle around you can better picture the layout of the structure. Running a grid search at that stage of the hunt isn't productive for me since it's too hard to piece the parts together in my mind. By the time I turn back for pass #2 I can't tell where I first saw the end of a ledge, for instance. Circling keeps the structure on screen but changing so as to give me an idea which way a ledge runs. After a circle or two I can decide on the best fishing angle and set a waypoint or toss out a marker, then come back to that point to begin fishing the ledge intelligently.

So now maybe you have the whole picture. Run grids until you come across something interesting, then stop and circle around it for a closer view, zooming in on the depth of activity. Get a "picture" how the terrain is laid out and plan where to hold the boat.

Jim

[Ouachita]

Have you ever wished you could replay a view on your sonar to nail down a hot spot you got blown away from in high wind? I passed over a school of baitfish that seemed to be in the same spot in deep water, hovering around a lone group of submerged trees, not noticing that until the view was almost off the screen. I did it again in apparently the same spot the next day, and missed setting a waypoint again. I did notice trees on a lone hump, one of 3 in the area, but all different in size and height and tree/stump arrangement. I suspected that was a permanent resting place for those shad. I retraced the GPS trail but couldn't get back on the exact spot. I needed to see what features came together that would give me a clue which way to move the boat a few feet alongside the trail, east or west along the N-S path I took. If I had been recording a sonar log I could have replayed the scenes in Simulator Mode while out there, then be able to recognize the right hump, then focus on locating the school on it. If you have the sonar feature, here's how to do it with a Lowrance LMS332C, with similar steps on other units. With the sonar page displayed press MENU, then scroll down to Log Sonar Chart Data. Press ENT. If you accept the default options, press ENT to begin recording whatever is displayed on the screen. A MMC or SD memory card must already be in the card slot. You can record about 11 hours of sonar on a 128 MB card, 45 hours on a 512 MB card (0.9 hours per MB). When you get home you can view the whole trip on a computer using the free downloaded Sonar Viewer program, requiring a card reader to read the memory card containing the log. It's a great way to learn more about the lake, as when fishing it's not practical to watch the sonar constantly, so you miss some really interesting details like a school of bass suspending in a creek bottom while you were focusing on casting 150 feet the wrong direction. You can review a GPS trail automatically recorded to help figure out where the sonar view was located. Just knowing a school of large fish was suspended in a creek bottom at 25 feet depth is valuable knowledge, especially during a tournament. That could be a factor is finding a pattern that might work the next day. I've used the feature to run grids over a target area every 50 feet, getting a great profile of an entire creek mouth. That will paint out distribution patterns of structure, cover, and fish.

Jim

[bassadict69]

After playing quite a bit with my 332C I have finally got the settings correct to show fish arches. Also, when on the river wednesday, I figured out how to put it on "bottom tracking" Everything shows up with so much more definition now. The bottom is brown, structure is brown & bait & fish show up in color.

I even tried dropping a rattletrap down into the cone & was able to actually watch me jigging the trap on the depthfinder. That was pretty cool, I have never been able to do that.

I plan to buy a memory card & reader today & plan to get some recordings to post for some help with interpreatation. The other day I was seeing what looked like HUGE balls of bait & fish arches. I just want to make sure I am reading it correctly.

Ouachita, thanks for all the informative posts you have put together here in this thread.

[Ouachita]

Great news. I'm glad you're tinkering. Keep exploring. Now move on to playing with Colorline while in Bottom Tracking. Leave the slide bar on screen and try different settings. Stop all automatic settings, go manual sensitivity, depth range, zoom in on where you see fish, blow the scene up. Turn off ASP noise rejection. Try LOW surface visibility. You'll be amazed at the improvements.

Now that you've seen your lure in the cone, find the fish and drop it down even with them and dangle it around with sonar chart stopped, as I'm convinced they get uncomfortable with that tap tap tap spark sound.    Turn it on out of the water and listen. There's actually a sort of spark plug in there jolting a crystal. When the bite drops off resume sonar charting (in MENU).

I recommend a SanDisc card, 128 MB, no more than 512 MB. Before buying the reader consider getting MapCreate with the LEI card reader. If you have a Fishing HotSpot Elite map card for your area you can read your high detail map with lake contours into MapCreate, make a custom map over it, then save the custom part back to that or another MMC or SD card. The map detail follows the Elite or Navionics card. You can upload your custom route and waypoint files made in MapCreate into the head unit. Then when you insert the Elite map in the unit your custom data displays over the detailed lake map held on the card.

I really enjoy talking this stuff, so there's a lot more to come. We've barely scratched the surface. I'm glad someone is enjoying it.

Jim

[bassadict69]

How do I get to the colorline option? I do not recall seeing it.

I was amazed at what all I was seeing the other day after playing with it awhile. I now keep the auto sensitivity off & have it set I think at about 84%. The ping speed is set at 100%.

Does that sound about right?

[Ouachita]

Colorline is third down in the Menu, right under auto sensitivity. It helps distinguish between strong and weak signals. A rock bottom would be strong, a fish on it weak.

At WOT you would want to use Hyperscroll ping, maxxed out. Any setting over 50% is in that mode. Reduce sensitivity for better performance. But at slow speeds you don't need the pinging wound up, so experiment with lower settings.

Jim